Brexit

[Matt Nolan]

We can see that our law's are being made , by unelected bureaucrats who cannot be removed by "the people".

Actually, the unelected bureaucrats can only suggest laws. It is the elected MEPs that do the voting on the laws.

 

[mattiasNYC]

I don't know much about the EU, but I just came to post this (I'm easily amused...):

propergander

Some people believe EU membership is the root of all mallardies...

They're all a bunch of quacks anyway...

(sorry!)

Oh, the beakering is so frustrating...

 

[DaveP]

My understanding of the desire to exit the EU, from what I've picked up over the last 40 years since the last vote, is this.

1.  There has been a policy of Multiculturalism which has been the opposite of integration.  This has little to do with the EU though as it largely affected people of Asian/Islamic ethnicity.  This has caused social cohesion to decline and it is blamed on lack of border controls.

2.  Being an island, a lot of "low information" people have not travelled much or studied other languages at school.  You can't get to know other EU members if all you do is go to English bars on Spanish holidays.

3.  Our subscription to the Human Rights Act has meant we have had enormous difficulties deporting undesirables from the UK.  Back in the 90's we were stupid enough to let them in when they were outlaws in their own countries.  This has little to do with the EU but many people think it does.

I am convinced that if we vote to leave the EU we will cause Scotland to break away from the UK which will set us back 400 years.  The only argument I hear for leaving the EU is that we will be at last in charge of our own destiny.  I believe that this will translate into being fully in charge of our own demise as a nation.

DaveP

 

[micaddict]

Little Britain?

 

[Script]

Let'em leave, if they absolutely must. Good luck! But don't come across moaning afterwards.
If they do, I for my part will sell the few British stocks that I hold right now...

 

[DaveP]

It looks less likely now that Obama and Clinton have laid it on the line.
DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

Let'em leave, if they absolutely must. Good luck! But don't come across moaning afterwards.
If they do, I for my part will sell the few British stocks that I hold right now...

They won't pull out,,, President Obama went over there to tell them to stay. 

JR

PS: I still don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. EU looks good on paper,,, in practice it will take a lot of work, that many expect someone else to do. Kind of like when you are a boss and tell three workers to do something, none of them do it, expecting the other guys to do it...

 

[zamproject]

In fine, we need more a USxit than a Brexit  :-X

Best
Zam

 

[frans]

My two cents from Germany - and I have to admit I'm well informed about the undercurrents of business, secret services and politcs from being close to a few people in the machine: the EU in it's current state is a "bait and switch". The good ideas behind it are clearly there, it's just that the heads of power push in a direction of more fascism and less democracy.  They won't ask if you like it.  The way it is now, the good side of these ideas is faded out and if you care to look for information outside the propaganda you can see it's getting darker. I wish I was wrong. For example, the IWF uses the EU to drain places like Greece in a financial war while telling that it's all Greece's fault, ending in a kind of coup, leaving the people there under troika control. While Goldman Sachs stooges in top jobs of the EU help out. Jean Claude Juncker, a proven criminal regarding laundering money in Luxemburg is now doing exactly that on the whole EU. More for the rich. Fracking and TTIP pushed relentlessly in the face of opposition by the majority. One rule for them, one rule for us. As much as I would like the whole idea of a unified Europe, really, we won't get there with what's in place now. They opened the borders for everyone, then they will close it for everyone, except those in power and the rich.

 

[DaveP]

The good ideas behind it are clearly there, it's just that the heads of power push in a direction of more fascism and less democracy.  They won't ask if you like it.

I agree, they are far too remote from the people they are supposed to represent

When were we ever asked about the EU enlargement?  It has all happened too quickly for our populations to assimilate the changes and that has caused discontent.  Bad politicians in the past in Greece borrowed too much money to give the population a standard of living that was beyond their ability to pay for it, they did it just to stay in power IMHO.

DaveP

 

[ruffrecords]

Obama makes me laugh telling us to stay in the EU. He has slapped a 256% import duty on Chinese steel to protect the American steel industry. EU rules forbid us from doing that and right now out steel industry is going down the toilet.

Cheers

Ian

 

[JohnRoberts]

Obama makes me laugh telling us to stay in the EU. He has slapped a 256% import duty on Chinese steel to protect the American steel industry. EU rules forbid us from doing that and right now out steel industry is going down the toilet.

Cheers

Ian

I always find it illuminating how other nations view our leader.    (I am too disappointed to have an objective opinion)

It appears he was trying to "help" Cameron argue in favor of staying in the EU.  :

The US steel industry is challenged too, I though I read that Cameron was trying to help Tata (an Indian company) sell their UK steel mills.  Not sure how this would magically make them profitable, unless it allows the new mill owner to cut new (lower) labor rates.

I don't miss that kind of industry, teach the kids to program computers.

JR 

 

[abbey road d enfer]

EU:
Good:
Common currency (which Brits didn't take...)
Simplified travel

Bad:
Destruction of gov't-owned services, resulting in price increase, when the given reason was that competition should bring prices down
Non-unified social laws and work regulations create large imbalances that benefit neither workers nor governments, all profit being absorbed by trans-border companies

The big issue is that Europeans have voted for a system that was presented as an improvement to welfare, but in fact has been hijacked by private interests.

Ever since the beginning, Brits have had a "yes, but" attitude, that is resented by all the other members, but I don't think they have really gained any significant advantage, except a feeling of sovereignty.
I believe the EU cannot continue in its existing form because it creates more problems than it solves (anti-terrorism is an example). IMO, the Brexit threat is an instrument of British private interests and lobbies to try to extort unjustified privileges. Only fools believe it will solve any problems.
But Europeans should be prepared to see the EU as we know it disappear and be replaced by something more adequate, like the SDN in its time was replaced by the UN.

 

[L´Andratté]

Bad politicians in the past in Greece borrowed too much money to give the population a standard of living that was beyond their ability to pay for it, they did it just to stay in power IMHO.

Bad politicians do it around the world, talking about U.S. and Japan, on paper Greece was laughably better off then them, btw.

But it´s a game of power and Greece is a pawn sacrifice to those players.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I though I read that Cameron was trying to help Tata (an Indian company) sell their UK steel mills.  Not sure how this would magically make them profitable, unless it allows the new mill owner to cut new (lower) labor rates.

Look at how Mittal acquired Arcelor (French steel), promising to restore profitability, got gov't subsidies and closed teh plants after just two years, got rid of a competitor.
The trap was blatant, but French politicians fell into it (they also made a fast buck); now if British politicians don't smell the smoke...

 

[s2udio]

Brexit the Movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0

 

[Script]

Touted as a "feature-length documentary film".
It sure is long, but I doubt it's a documentary  :

Now I wish for a link with a "documentary" in favour of Britain remaining. Together they'd make for balanced propaganda as a basis for making a more informed decision. But I have no say in this decision anyway so  8)

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Brexit the Movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0

We have just about the same situation here with the same arguments from the Corsican independantists, and I guess you've had the same with the Scots, and Italy, Belgium...whatever country when it has independantists.
It's just a leverage for getting privileges and exemptions; in all cases, they would be running like beheadded chicken if they had their independance.
I'm not talking about real people with real countries; Korea, Indochine (Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia), Algeria, Rhodesia...they all deserved independance.

 

[ruffrecords]

I'm not talking about real people with real countries; Korea, Indochine (Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia), Algeria, Rhodesia...they all deserved independance.

Are you suggesting the British are not real and/or that Britain is not real?????

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

We can see that our law's are being made , by unelected bureaucrats who cannot be removed by "the people".

Actually, the unelected bureaucrats can only suggest laws. It is the elected MEPs that do the voting on the laws.

But it would appear that the only ones who can suggest laws are the bureaucrats. MEPS cannot put forward legislation or repeal it. All they can do is vote on the laws put forward by the unelected bureaucrats. hat is not democracy.

Cheers

Ian