[BUILD] 1176 Rev A - Back to the beginning...

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Mr.Franky said:
Hey,

My build is still not working correctly. My unit sounds very distorted in either GR mode or not. Searched for issues myself, found nothing. Brought it in with a pro tech, who can't seem to find anything wrong. All voltages seem to match the values on the mnats voltage file.


Any ideas please?
Regards,

Recommend tracing the signal from input jack all the way to output jack with a signal tracer or (better yet) oscilloscope, to determine which section is responsible. We'll go from there.

If you don't have a scope or tracer, you can build a simple tracer lead (basically a homemade 1x scope probe) using some wire, a capacitor and a phono (1/4") jack, or check with your tech buddy about borrowing an o'scope.

Once you know what section is causing the trouble, you'll have a better idea how to proceed.
 
musicalsl said:
Heya. I'm after some help from this amazing forum.

Doing a Rev A build,

I'm going through calibration and when trying to zero my GR meter, with my probes on R74, I can't get R75 to reduce R74 to 0volt.
R75 is having an effect on the vu needle, but not on the voltage of R74
R74 just sits on 0.46

Cheers

This has been covered extensively in this thread and elsewhere, but for this revision, you don't measure across R74; instead there are two test points provided labels TP10 and TP11. Make sure R44 is out of circuit by way of moving or removing the nearby jumper.

Recommend to anyone attempting this build to read this thread in it's entirety, even if it takes all day ;) Most questions have been answered here.
 
hymentoptera said:
Mr.Franky said:
Hey,

My build is still not working correctly. My unit sounds very distorted in either GR mode or not. Searched for issues myself, found nothing. Brought it in with a pro tech, who can't seem to find anything wrong. All voltages seem to match the values on the mnats voltage file.


Any ideas please?
Regards,

Recommend tracing the signal from input jack all the way to output jack with a signal tracer or (better yet) oscilloscope, to determine which section is responsible. We'll go from there.

If you don't have a scope or tracer, you can build a simple tracer lead (basically a homemade 1x scope probe) using some wire, a capacitor and a phono (1/4") jack, or check with your tech buddy about borrowing an o'scope.

Once you know what section is causing the trouble, you'll have a better idea how to proceed.

Thanks hymentoptera, appreciate your help.
I do have an oscilloscope. I can't test this week, because I'm off to my dorm. Next weekend I'll make sure I test the unit with the oscilloscope. Mind giving some guidelines for testing the unit? Never really worked with an oscilloscope.

I the meantime, I just recorded some audioclips of a vocal. There's an orignal vocal, a distressor, a Rev D 1176 and the defect Rev A kit.
http://we.tl/meZ3YxB4UO

Regards,

EDIT; I forgot to say that my Rev D sounds somewhat dark as well, is this normal? I've worked with the UA 1176 reissues and compared those to the distressors, but not against my 1176s. If I remember correctly, the UA1176 sounded darker than the distressors as well, so I'd suppose my rev D build is correct?
 
I don't have a D yet, but your "D" file sounds good; the sort of high freq loss I would expect from a lot of compression with just about any comp. Maybe someone who's build a D or owns a real on can comment on that.

I did notice something unique about the "A" file... a distinct asymmetrical distortion on the top half of the waveform. Zoom in on it in any wave editor (I used WaveLab) to see what I mean. I'm gonna say this is either happening in the signal amp or the line amp, either Q3, Q5, or Q6. Also make sure CR1 is the right way around, with the line (negative "cathode" side) towards the outside edge of the board. Something is causing the positive swing to be clipped or something. Could be a bad transistor, or maybe (someone tell me if this is wrong) a decoupling cap nearby not providing enough current and dragging the +30 rail down on loud notes. And I know it sounds redundant, but double check all of your voltages per the volts schematic. Check every gate, source, drain, base, collector, and emitter to be sure, because that would have been my first guess. Like an improperly biased transistor. Sort of like the way a fuzz pedal distorts half the waveform.

If all the voltages check out, fire up the scope and feed the 1176 a strong input. 1kHz sine is best, 1v or there abouts, but anything will do really. My old wavetek puts ou 1v and I know this can sometimes be too much, and I have to pad it down. Square wave can be useful in situations like this too, but here you should start with a sine wave since we're looking for asymmetrical distortion and it will show up best as an asymmetrical sine wave.

Inject the signal with the 1176 on and in/out at 12 o'clock or less (less on the input? maybe 9 o'clock, you'll adjust as you go, you'll know when it's too hot or too quiet, the scope will show you), or wherever typical operating ranges are, ground the scope probe's ground clip to PCB ground (any ground, just make sure it's ground!) and probe the input XLR pin 2 to see signal coming in. It should be clean and sinusoidal. Use this opportunity to set up and tweak your timebase and volts settings on your scope, focus, intensity, position, volts/div, timebase, trigger, ac couple, etc, bringing the picture into view until it's stable and clear.

Now follow the signal step by step, next moving to where the signal exits the input attenuator, then moving to the input transformer's output, and using the schematic to probe off componant legs (or underside of board, which ever is convenient) step by step tracing the path though the signal amp, output pot, line amp, and finally through the output transformer and output XLR.

At some point the waveform should become distorted, one half of it looking weaker or filtered looking. This should give you a better idea of which section is in question.

All comments and corrections welcome (i'm still pretty noobish here too ;) )
 
Hi. I have a problem with my rev a during calibration. Step one and two all good, but step three, my trackIng adjust trimmer (5k) doesn't do anything. I've checked all voltages around it, the meter is responding to all other adjustments.
I've been reading this forum all day and haven't come across anything. I maybe miss something?

The unit has been on for over an hour.

Cheers.
 
From what I have read on other posts, there might be a gap in the trace on the board in the GR area. Maybe mnats did this intentionally to force people to problem solve?
 
Hi everyone,
I just built the rev a blue stripe 1176 (hairball complete kit 1.2.5). Impressed with how well the kit is organized. It went together with ease. However, when I started the calibration process (step one: Q bias) it says to confirm the XLR input is receiving .775v (0db) across pins 2&3(and it is), then move the DMM to pins 2 & 3 of the output XLR to adjust to 2.75 VAC. I'm getting no voltage at the output XLR. This got me concerned so I attempted to pass audio and it sounds like an issue all right. The output is very low and sounds distorted/and very thin. All voltages look normal throughout the circuit. With GR bypassed, it doesn't seem to have any effect.

I've been reading this colossal thread all day and still haven't come across a similar story. Any ideas where I should begin troubleshooting? Is there a way to test the output transformer with a DMM? Or test the input transformer?

The 0db 1k tone gets to the attenuator, then to the input of the input transformer. Not sure what I should be seeing after the input transformer. Should the "+" and "-" at the output of the input transformer short? Because they are.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to offer help/advice!
 
musicalsl said:
From what I have read on other posts, there might be a gap in the trace on the board in the GR area. Maybe mnats did this intentionally to force people to problem solve?

Not that I have seen.

Have you pulled it out and tested the pot?
 
jimkeaney said:
Hi everyone,
I just built the rev a blue stripe 1176 (hairball complete kit 1.2.5). Impressed with how well the kit is organized. It went together with ease. However, when I started the calibration process (step one: Q bias) it says to confirm the XLR input is receiving .775v (0db) across pins 2&3(and it is), then move the DMM to pins 2 & 3 of the output XLR to adjust to 2.75 VAC. I'm getting no voltage at the output XLR. This got me concerned so I attempted to pass audio and it sounds like an issue all right. The output is very low and sounds distorted/and very thin. All voltages look normal throughout the circuit. With GR bypassed, it doesn't seem to have any effect.

I've been reading this colossal thread all day and still haven't come across a similar story. Any ideas where I should begin troubleshooting? Is there a way to test the output transformer with a DMM? Or test the input transformer?

The 0db 1k tone gets to the attenuator, then to the input of the input transformer. Not sure what I should be seeing after the input transformer. Should the "+" and "-" at the output of the input transformer short? Because they are.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to offer help/advice!

Ya you'll want to trace the signal with you DMM.

Feed a 1K 0dB signal into the input.  Set your controls mid way, no GR, and test the signal referenced to ground at the XLR pin 2, + in t-pad, +out tpad, + either side of the input transformer, + at PCB input (it's going to go down a lot through these steps, less than 0.1 VAC at the PCB that's normal), - side of C7, and positive of out XLR.

What are you seeing.

Also check your DC voltages against this:
http://mnats.net/files/1176REVD_VOLTS.pdf

Mike
 
Hairball Audio said:
Ya you'll want to trace the signal with you DMM.

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the help. Using the DMM set to VAC (grounded on CT).

XLR IN pin 2 = .379
+ in t-pad = .379
+out tpad = .255
+ IN of the input transformer = .255
+ OUT of the input transformer = .077
+ at PCB input = .077
- side of C7 = .035 (I thought these were not polarized, both sides read .035)
+ of XLR OUT = .010

Another bit of info.... when attempting the q bias calibration it says: with 1k 0dbu at the input, "Adjust the output control to read +11dBu (2.75 VAC) on your DMM at the output". With my output knob maxed it's only hitting .571 VAC.

EDIT: I just had a possible epiphany. Do you mean "output control" as in the output of my 1k tone (daw)? Or the output knob of the 1176? I assumed the output knob of the 1176.
 
Yes. I have pulled the 5 K pot and confirmed it works.

I have also cleaned up the board and re-done the solder. still same result.




Hairball Audio said:
musicalsl said:
From what I have read on other posts, there might be a gap in the trace on the board in the GR area. Maybe mnats did this intentionally to force people to problem solve?

Not that I have seen.

Have you pulled it out and tested the pot?
 
Hairball Audio said:
Also check your DC voltages against this:
http://mnats.net/files/1176REVD_VOLTS.pdf
Mike

Hi Mike,
I replied a couple posts up, but I checked my voltages again and did find a few discrepancies. See the images below to see where I'm finding noticeable differences... Very wrong in the metering section and one voltage about 66% what it should be at Q4. The help is much appreciated thanks!
 

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I guess you can't do your bias that's the issue.  If you rotate the bias pot back does that help?

Check your components in that first amp section.  You should have like a full volt at C7.

Mike
 
Hairball Audio said:
Check all of those R's in the signal preamp (like having a 4.7K instead of 47K and so on).

We might be in business!

Before seeing your response, I just removed Q12 & Q13 and looked to get a closer hFE match. I had one reading at 308 and the other at 332. Maybe too close to 10% apart, so I found another 3708 with an hFE of 324 to match closer to the 332. The swap came from Q7. Even though I still wasn't seeing proper DC voltages in that section, I thought 'what the heck', I'll attempt this calibration process again and see how far I get. When it came time to turn the Q-bias trimmer, I started to hear the output transformer singing the 1k a bit. I swear I had it fully CCW initially, but maybe I stirred something up and suddenly I had plenty of 1k at the XLR output. Long story short, I made it through the calibration steps and it sounds like it could be passing full-frequency (I only have a guitar amp to monitor with here).

GR and Metering seems to be reacting as it should. I'll bring into the studio tomorrow to find out for sure. Thanks, Mike.
 
So my unit work and sound fine. But am unable to complete step 3 in the calibration process.
The VU meter responds the
Way I'd expect in +4 and GR. the different ratios appear to work the way they are intended.  Not sure why I can't do the last step though..
 
musicalsl said:
So my unit work and sound fine. But am unable to complete step 3 in the calibration process.
The VU meter responds the
Way I'd expect in +4 and GR. the different ratios appear to work the way they are intended.  Not sure why I can't do the last step though..

Funny, I noticed this last night when calibrating too. Looks like the calibration instructions left out the part where you turn R44 trimmer to get -10, then re-zero. Looks like it just got updated recently. http://www.hairballaudio.com/blog/d_assembly/reva/calibration/
 

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