BV 08 Transformer Laminations Alloy

[o3misha]

Andreas maybe?
By the way, your accumulated knowledge on the subject is more valuable than just the knowledge of experts, maybe as you're a musician who knows what to look for. Experts - just warehouses of information and no more. I am confident of success.

 

[gyraf]

(following from side line - very interesting topic and discussion.
Sorry to hear (and a bit worried actually) that you got expelled from PRW, Misha. I think your analysis of possible motives for misinformation holds true.)

 

[micaddict]

(following from side line - very interesting topic and discussion.
Sorry to hear (and a bit worried actually) that you got expelled from PRW, Misha. I think your analysis of possible motives for misinformation holds true.)

Ouch ...

No such misery in this here community, fortunately. 

 

[pasarski]

Followed the discussion at PRW. The ban was really unfair. Some people made themshelf look like a bunch of bullies at the school yard . Keep up the good work o3misha!

 

[Moby]

People who care just about profit does't like questions and criticism. Also, Misha's arguments were really strong and opened some new questions about the AMI tx's . I'm not against the profit but if we have to f*** up this community I'm not for it. That's why I still think about the best way to present my progress about this (Neumann BV UI/30/25 transformers laminations Alloy).

 

[o3misha]

Yes! +100500

 

[sethinspain]

Hello O3misha and Moby,

I would like to keep this discussion going!  I appreciate the honesty about this matter.  I won't get into the politics of the matter but there are indeed politics in this as money (sales) is tied into the equation.

Moby, you have the ability to test alloys and their final sonic result, correct?  I am looking to try and recreate the BV08 transformer for my own microphones (I have all of the professional winding equipment already).

If I put one together, could you test it for me?  O3misha, would you be willing to do some comparisons?

My goal would be to recreate as close as possible that Neumann sound but possibly using a different alloy mixture.  I agree that the Chinese even use roughly 80% nickel but they miss the mark on the remaining mixture.

I would love to work at this together with some like-minded people.  I am moving to Brussels very soon so we could even get together and discuss it in person!

Excited for what could come.

Seth

 

[Moby]

Hi Seth. Yes, I use service from the one of the greatest labs in the region regarding alloy chemistry. Sound comparision can be very subjective but measuring fundamental magnetics properties are possible too. To be honest, winding is not so critical regarding sound if you follow the original scheme. How can i help you?

 

[sethinspain]

I think the one thing to consider would be an optional of using multiple types of lamination alloys in the transformer.  It would be nice to know what each additional alloy's effect were on the sound of the transformer.  That might be able to point us in a direction where we can try to immulate better that famous sound, or, dare I say it, surpass it.

I need to find a lamination provider that has something close.  Not sure if you mentioned Knudd or Knurr as they make a modern version although with a different chemical compound.  Maybe this would be a decent place to start....

 

[Moby]

I think the one thing to consider would be an optional of using multiple types of lamination alloys in the transformer.  It would be nice to know what each additional alloy's effect were on the sound of the transformer.  That might be able to point us in a direction where we can try to immulate better that famous sound, or, dare I say it, surpass it.

I need to find a lamination provider that has something close.  Not sure if you mentioned Knudd or Knurr as they make a modern version although with a different chemical compound.  Maybe this would be a decent place to start....

Why to search similar when the original is still available? Well, in the Neumanns Bv8 (and few other ui30/25) production era there were few different alloys but one of them is still possible to achieve.

 

[sethinspain]

Do you know of a supplier?

 

[Moby]

Do you know of a supplier?

Yes, but please read this thread (and one more related) more carefully. I already posted about that. Also, be prepared for 200 to 500kg as the MOQ. Of course, I'm talking about rough material, not about the lamination. Lamination is another story...

 

[sethinspain]

What I will do is purchase some pre made laminations in order to create different versions and later test them.  I realize this will not be the original allow formula used but I think it could be beneficial to do more research on the subject and discover how different alloys influence the sound of the transformer.

By the way Moby, are you aware of the exact winding style used in the BV8?  I know it is not coil-over-coil.  I know of someone who dissected an original and has documented it thoroughly.  This will be very valuable.

 

[Moby]

What I will do is purchase some pre made laminations in order to create different versions and later test them.  I realize this will not be the original allow formula used but I think it could be beneficial to do more research on the subject and discover how different alloys influence the sound of the transformer.

By the way Moby, are you aware of the exact winding style used in the BV8?  I know it is not coil-over-coil.  I know of someone who dissected an original and has documented it thoroughly.  This will be very valuable.

My idea is to recreate it with original material and of course to wind it based on the  original Neumann's document. Again, do a search at forum for the doc, it was posted in the past. Regarding core material sound influence I can dig a little into my books and post some info about it, but, it's directly connected to the magnetic resitance which is frequency dependent and differs from a core alloy mixture.

 

[vari-mu]

  Interesting information here:
http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id146.html

 

[tardishead]

Please check this thread for anyone interested in Neumann clone lams

https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=66764.0