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FarisElek said:
Referring to antifa as a group that’s causing “ruckus” shows that you’ve taken in some of the mainstream media’s spin  on what is really going on. I’m antifa, everyone I know is antifa, my grandfather that fought in WWII is antifa. It’s not a group, it’s a philosophy. It literally just means anti-fascist. Portland is declaring riots because their is a loophole in the tear gas ban that it can only be deployed during riots. Right wind armed militia showing up to Michigan’s court house to protest  masks ends in no violence from cops, but moms creating a wall in Portland has ended in tear gas and violence. Any sort of destruction to public property is ultimately the fault of the feds and cops. Blaming people that are anti-fascist for destruction is ludicrous.
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For not being a group, antifa sure has a lot of .org websites where you can join a group  And become a member of antifa.  While they ay claim they are not a group as a national unit they sure have a lot of local level groups spread out the us.
Plus it has been shown how antifa encourages any means necessary and often clashes using violence with others who do not agree with antifa.  By all accounts  antifa may claim to be anti facist, but they are  using facist behavior to get their message across to those who do not agree with them.
 
In what respect [is antifa for fascism]?
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If you read the wiki definitions of both antifa and fascism (and agree they are valid), then all that's needed is to put on the glasses of a particular side to get at the problem of interpretation; either side can pluck from aspects of the definitions to strengthen ideology. Don't think it requires examples,  but I can follow up needs be.
 
pucho812 said:
For not being a group, antifa sure has a lot of .org websites where you can join a group  And become a member of antifa.  While they ay claim they are not a group as a national unit they sure have a lot of local level groups spread out the us.
Plus it has been shown how antifa encourages any means necessary and often clashes using violence with others who do not agree with antifa.  By all accounts  antifa may claim to be anti facist, but they are  using facist behavior to get their message across to those who do not agree with them.
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I don't understand your concern about Antifa, I thought there were good people on both sides. Isn't that enough any more?  ???
 
boji said:
If you read the wiki definitions of both antifa and fascism (and agree they are valid), then all that's needed is to put on the glasses of a particular side to get at the problem of interpretation; either side can pluck from aspects of the definitions to strengthen ideology. Don't think it requires examples,  but I can follow up needs be.
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Yeah, if you have problems telling one from the other, just watch out which side is NOT holding assault rifles, is NOT driving cars into crowds, is NOT publishing death lists, is NOT met with complicit sympathy by law enforcement, etc.

I don´t really know what is going on in Portland, I just know that the logic of law and order is deeply flawed and I don´t see how BLM or anti-police brutality protests are falsified by a small fraction of violent idiots,
in a context of violent escalation by "law enforcement"...
 
There was a 45 minute interview with Mary Trump on national radio here this morning , the presidents niece.
Her father, the eldest brother died at 39 while never living up to his fathers expectations, Donald on the other hand was the apple of his fathers eye . She described her uncle as narcissist  and someone who lacked many human qualities . Her father was humiliated and abused by the Grandfather for not having a cut throat enough attitude to run the family business. Towards the end he qualified as a pilot and tried to get away from the family but ended up with a serious drink problem and cut out of the family fortune .

https://www.thejournal.ie/mary-trump-donald-trump-4874865-Jul2020/

Theres a few interesting quotes in the above article which elude to the damaged man hiding behind the presidential mask . I found Mary herself to be credible in her testimony as well as being a psychologist who obviously knows her subject matter.

 
There's been a lot of talk from the govt. about how grabbing someone of the street and transporting him in a van does not constitute arrest.  This seems germane, & short enough to qualify for fair use:

Still, the government maintained that what the agents did was lawful, and Cline’s explanation for that belief is the heart of the problem. It all comes back to that crucial word, “arrest.” DHS says pulling a man off the street and carrying him away in an unmarked van was just a “simple engagement.” “It was not a custodial arrest,” Cline said. In other words, the officers supposedly complied with the Fourth Amendment because, in Cline’s view, they didn’t need probable cause: There was no arrest, he says.

This assertion is glaringly wrong — and it has been for 40 years, since the Supreme Court’s 1979 opinion in Dunaway v. New York. In that case, the justices had to decide whether police officers violated the Fourth Amendment when, without probable cause, they took someone “into custody, transported him to the police station, and detained him there for interrogation.” Their answer, reaffirmed over the years, was unequivocal: Such conduct is “indistinguishable from a traditional arrest,” which need not be accompanied by bureaucratic processes like fingerprinting, booking or a formal arrest record to count as an arrest for purposes of the Fourth Amendment.

So, according to the Supreme Court, the federal agents in that video really did arrest the man they put in the van —  without probable cause, by the government’s own admission. That means they violated the Fourth Amendment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/portland-fourth-amendment-arrests/2020/07/24/c7e9822c-cceb-11ea-91f1-28aca4d833a0_story.html
 
Antifa = Anti-Facist.

Facist is an over used word (mostly used as a pejorative these  days) and means different things to different people.
It meant different things to different people when Mussolini and Hitler were in power too.

George Orwell said in a 1944 essay on the subject
"... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come."

**Edit:  Like FarisElek above, George Orwell, and my dad who is in his 90's and served in the Royal Marines, I am also anti-facist.   

Anyway, I'm sure glad there are independent reporters who have been documenting the events on the ground in Portland and other cities.      After Trump is no longer in office -  whether that's January 2021  or January 2025 -  I think world history will view this as about as glorious a  chapter in American* politics as was the Iraq invasion and the WMD false intel. 

*not forgetting the UK's own shame in that regard.


 
 
scott2000 said:
There should be consequences for whoever that officer was...
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I'm not holding my breath on there being consequences for any officer or agent.  For anything.   


scott2000 said:
I just saw this video...Kanye is pretty cool..
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The guy is bi-polar and needs proper clinical help.    I hope someone in his family can make it happen. 
 
Yeah, if you have problems telling one from the other, just watch out which side...
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...has what glasses on. 

It has become a self-terminating solution to map out a future based on a landscape of media that puts the management of perspective above shared truth.
 
Pretty funny

THE WHITE ALLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSqVHzdNRlI
Report to moderator    Logged
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World needs more humor .    It just works better for the parties when we’re divided.  It’s all economic problems but let’s blame on racism instead of the parties.
 
boji said:
...has what glasses on. 

It has become a self-terminating solution to map out a future based on a landscape of media that puts the management of perspective above shared truth.
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Sorry, could you translate that to the uninitiated?

It´s feels so in vain talking against this "partisan" thing, no I´m not partisan, I don´t care for Democrat´s Biden, not a bit. I don´t care for the CNN spin, as little as for the FOX spin. I´m not stupid. I fear for our life on this planet, no really.

The mechanisms of authoritarian societies are well understood and not a secret.

At one point I thought people might learn from the lessons of the 20th century and become a little bit careful in choosing their ways. But it seems now almost the last survivors of WWII have gone, people are truly ready to follow the next tribune and his promises of strenght, greatness and "righting all wrongs" through force -right into an industrial style slaughterhouse. Probably looking for catharsis-

You cannot believe it? It sounds like the bad dreams of a madman?
That´s always how people feel, before ...and after...

Not saying this is what you see in Portland, but not a time for blind faith in human rationality and good will
and keep on truckin´ :(

And sorry, I don´t want to "be right" for the sake of it. I wish it´s all only in my mind.
 
Even ignoring the fact that the 2 men don't even look the same -  the person in that clip is named  *George Floyd IV,” while the name of the man who died in May 2020 was “George Perry Floyd Jr.”

The episode of  “Judge Judy” aired in 2010 and shows a 17 year old teen who, now, would be 27.  The man who died on May 25, 2020 was  46.

10 seconds with Google is all it took. 


 
scott2000 said:
  I am curious as to the importance of digging a bit to find the truth in this. From what I understand, Mr. Floyd did  have a checkered past so to debunk a video that maybe shouldn't be shocking seems like an odd exercise to me. 
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It's fucking odious to be even posting crap like that video online, even if it were him.  Even more so when it isn't him.   
I didn't need to look it up to know it wasn't him, I could see it wasn't.    But some folks don't seem to be able to tell the difference between black men* so I searched for details.

*.  Recent case in point:  2 Republican Senators actually posted photos of Elijah Cummings in their John Lewis tribute tweets. 


 

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