Campaign Shock Troops

[hodad]

Trump tells Sean Hannity he may deploy as many as 75,000 Shock Troops to American cities.  For what, exactly? 
Protecting federal buildings is long past being an excuse.  Just more BS.  And fighting crime (not the job of Border Police or DHS) may fly in Chicago, but not so much in Albuquerque.  And all those other cities set to be invaded by their own govt.?  I'm sure Trump and his minions will think of some lame excuse. 

Is this an effort to shore up Trump's flagging campaign?  Absolutely. 

Is it an effort at voter suppression in Democratic urban areas?  Maybe.  Either Trump or Barr said they expect things to escalate toward November.  And from what we've seen so far, the feds seem more than happy to initiate the escalation.

Is Trump putting forces in place to position himself to hold the office of president by force?  I wouldn't put it past him.  The man has stated outright he's not all that interested in honoring the results of the upcoming election.  I take him at his word on that.  He has not shown any hesitation about abusing the power of the presidency, so why would this be any different? 

As the excuses for deployment of this force fall by the wayside, it's becoming apparent that they're really there to serve the whims of one man:  Donald Trump.  This is not about security or safety or spray paint on buildings; this is about Trump and nothing more. 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I'm confused about what the solution is in Portland.

The protesters numbered in the hundreds after July 4th, but the last couple of nights have seen them in the thousands, in large part due to the federal presence. 
Trump and Chad Wolf have both indicated they aren't backing off on federal presence, and they continue to label all the protesters as violent criminals.  The fact is, only a small percentage of protestors fall into that category, with their actions generally being a separate late night/wee hours of the morning affair. 
But the majority of the people protesting within the few city blocks are not violent, nor criminals.      I think we may see a protracted standoff and I just hope someone - or group of someones - doesn't get trigger happy in the middle of it. 


As for the solutions to the core issue:  City commissioners did cut the police budget by some $16 million so as to divert funds to social services, but it was felt to be not enough by some.   

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Trump tells Sean Hannity he may deploy as many as 75,000 Shock Troops to American cities.  For what, exactly? 

Really?  As  graffiti patrols?

Chicago removed both of their Columbus statues in the wee hours of this morning so those don't need protecting. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

Is it time to tear down the statue of liberty ?  (kidding )

I'm waiting for somebody's head to explode, and we have 3 months to go... (not kidding).

Please try to chill.... seriously.

JR

 

[hodad]

Please try to chill.... seriously.

JR

You think that a president sending as many as 75000 troops to US cities, against the express wishes of mayors and governors, is something to be chill about?  My head is not about to explode, but I'm not going to shut up either.  This is not normal, and frankly not acceptable.  I'm sorry that you seem to think otherwise. 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Is it time to tear down the statue of liberty ?  (kidding ) 

Were you attempting to infer some connection between  Christopher Columbus statues and the Statue of Liberty which is based on the roman goddess Libertas? 
 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

So this should pretty much do it? This was the main issue in Chicago? So Feds really don't need to be there I agree... Unless they are being asked for help for something else I guess...

As far as I'm aware, the main issue in Chicago for the demonstrators is police brutality and racism.

There was a commission in the 1960's (forget the name) that looked into the rioting at the time and found it to be the result of poor living conditions (ghettos) and racism.  While I'm sure progress has been made since then, it's probably the same today.  I don't see how federal police will help.

On the other hand, if the federal police are there to clear up the backlog of unsolved murders, I sure hope it's a different set of feds than were sent to Portland as a big percentage of them are contract security guys.  I doubt they have detective skills written on their resume. 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

This is not normal, and frankly not acceptable.  I'm sorry that you seem to think otherwise.

It's strange that a lot of the republicans with libertarian leanings  are conveniently ignoring this.  Isn't this the sort of stuff the NRA are always warning us about?

 

[hodad]

It's strange that a lot of the republicans with libertarian leanings  are conveniently ignoring this.  Isn't this the sort of stuff the NRA are always warning us about?

"jackbooted thugs" was the way they described it during the Clinton years. 

 

[CJ]

for those not around in the 60's>

https://www.buzzfeed.com/gabrielsanchez/30-inspiring-pictures-from-us-protests-in-the-1960s

 

[boji]

Hey Winston your PM box is full, but I just wanted to make a passing comment re few posts back:

I should have included the southern perspective on the forming of the police.  It's clear (and helpful) we all come at reality from different perspectives and that they inform the way we view the past, present, future-- so thank you for your viewing angle- I've added it to my own.

 

[JohnRoberts]

for those not around in the 60's>

https://www.buzzfeed.com/gabrielsanchez/30-inspiring-pictures-from-us-protests-in-the-1960s

As they are fond of saying if you remember the 60s you weren't really there.  8)

I was alive and remember some stuff a little differently... Good to see a picture of John Lewis (recently RIP). He was an organizer of the march on DC, but made his bones during the Selma march.

The '68 DNC protests in Chicago were notorious for violence, previous to that most protests were peaceful. Not some flower children offering flower to troops.

I recall some massive anti-war protests in Boston ("Hooray hooray, LBJ gave up today...". ) My concern about war was well founded, I got drafted in 1970.

Kent State was the object lesson for how not to deal with protestors.

JR

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Hey Winston your PM box is full, but I just wanted to make a passing comment re few posts back:

I should have included the southern perspective on the forming of the police.  It's clear (and helpful) we all come at reality from different perspectives and that they inform the way we view the past, present, future-- so thank you for your viewing angle- I've added it to my own.

Thanks for the heads up on my PM box,  cleared. 
Thanks also for the heads up on the origins of the police in the North and the wise words...
Cheers

 

[pucho812]

portland for a long time now has had antifa  folks causing a ruckus. We all agree that we should allow for  peaceful protesting and not allow antiafa's  aggressive and destructive behavior.  The city for some time has done nothing to protect it's citzenry from such things. they failed at their job. The state did no better. What I would like to see is the peaceful protesters tell the  non peaceful looters to go away but they won't.  So in the end the feds have stepped in.  I watched video today of the "peaceful protesters"  tossing rocks and other things at the feds and then defending themselves with leaf blowers and umbrella's. In the end the non peaceful protesters will try and push more and more and  eventually the feds will not play around anymore. who is going to win man and leaf blower vs a tank or whatever the feds will bring in?  they are literally poking a sleeping bear, do not be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls them.

 

[boji]

do not be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls them

I have to believe the fed has come to terms with the powder keg it is sitting on, and it is not really Trump that will decide how things will go. It's the thousands of middle-management folks, luteniants, and squads who top-down, are all fully aware the world is watching and waiting to expose poor conduct.

Anyone have news on a stimulus check repeat?  This needs to happen, if for nothing more than to keep people from being evicted before November.

 

[FarisElek]

portland for a long time now has had antifa  folks causing a ruckus. We all agree that we should allow for  peaceful protesting and not allow antiafa's  aggressive and destructive behavior.  The city for some time has done nothing to protect it's citzenry from such things. they failed at their job. The state did no better. What I would like to see is the peaceful protesters tell the  non peaceful looters to go away but they won't.  So in the end the feds have stepped in.  I watched video today of the "peaceful protesters"  tossing rocks and other things at the feds and then defending themselves with leaf blowers and umbrella's. In the end the non peaceful protesters will try and push more and more and  eventually the feds will not play around anymore. who is going to win man and leaf blower vs a tank or whatever the feds will bring in?  they are literally poking a sleeping bear, do not be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls them.

Referring to antifa as a group that’s causing “ruckus” shows that you’ve taken in some of the mainstream media’s spin  on what is really going on. I’m antifa, everyone I know is antifa, my grandfather that fought in WWII is antifa. It’s not a group, it’s a philosophy. It literally just means anti-fascist. Portland is declaring riots because their is a loophole in the tear gas ban that it can only be deployed during riots. Right wind armed militia showing up to Michigan’s court house to protest  masks ends in no violence from cops, but moms creating a wall in Portland has ended in tear gas and violence. Any sort of destruction to public property is ultimately the fault of the feds and cops. Blaming people that are anti-fascist for destruction is ludicrous.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Referring to antifa as a group that’s causing “ruckus” shows that you’ve taken in some of the mainstream media’s spin  on what is really going on. I’m antifa, everyone I know is antifa, my grandfather that fought in WWII is antifa. It’s not a group, it’s a philosophy. It literally just means anti-fascist. Portland is declaring riots because their is a loophole in the tear gas ban that it can only be deployed during riots. Right wind armed militia showing up to Michigan’s court house to protest  masks ends in no violence from cops, but moms creating a wall in Portland has ended in tear gas and violence. Any sort of destruction to public property is ultimately the fault of the feds and cops. Blaming people that are anti-fascist for destruction is ludicrous.

Or have paid attention to history over the decades...

A number of those "philosophers" have been arrested for destroying property and street violence.

Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] is an anti-fascist political movement in the United States[2][3][4][5] comprising a diverse[6][7] array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both non-violent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[8][9][10][11] Antifa political activists engage in protest tactics such as digital activism and militancy[8][12] against fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other far-right extremists whom they seek to combat.[13] This may sometimes involve property damage, physical violence and harassment against those whom they identify as belonging to the far-right.[14][15][16][17]
Individuals involved in the movement tend to hold anti-authoritarian[18] and anti-capitalist views,[19] subscribing to a range of left-wing ideologies such as anarchism, communism, Marxism, social democracy and socialism.[20][21][22][23][24] Both the name antifa and the logo with two flags representing anarchism and communism are derived from the German Antifa movement.[25]

Nice try equating antifa with American soldiers fighting WWII, I was in the Army (drafted) during Viet nam and don't recall rubbing shoulders with any antifa.

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[4] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries.[4] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far right within the traditional left–right spectrum.[4][5][6]
Fascists saw World War I as a revolution that brought massive changes to the nature of war, society, the state, and technology. The advent of total war and the total mass mobilization of society had broken down the distinction between civilians and combatants. A "military citizenship" arose in which all citizens were involved with the military in some manner during the war.[7][8] The war had resulted in the rise of a powerful state capable of mobilizing millions of people to serve on the front lines and providing economic production and logistics to support them, as well as having unprecedented authority to intervene in the lives of citizens.[7][8]
Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[9] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[9] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[10][11] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[12]
Since the end of World War II in 1945, few parties have openly described themselves as fascist, and the term is instead now usually used pejoratively by political opponents. The descriptions neo-fascist or post-fascist are sometimes applied more formally to describe parties of the far right with ideologies similar to, or rooted in, 20th-century fascist movements.[4][13]

Feel free to protest, but breaking the law is just criminal behavior.

JR

PS: Sorry for all the cut and paste but it seemed like some basic definitions were being obscured or ignored. I hope WIKI is credible enough.

 

[pucho812]

I find antifa behaving like the very facists they claim to be anti about.

 

[L´Andratté]

I find antifa behaving like the very facists they claim to be anti about.

In what respect?
Did they start death flights, torture centers or concentration camps?
What is your concept of fascism?

 

[pucho812]

In what respect?
Did they start death flights, torture centers or concentration camps?
What is your concept of fascism?

forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy. They already are suppressing opposition both out in the world, online and anywhere else. The rest will follow  When they get their way. For example the Chaz zone up in Seattle . Look how facist they behaved towards local news media and others who may or may not have had a different opinion. Look at how they extorted businesses. Look at the murders they had while the Chaz zone was allowed.  There is an easy comparison to facists behavior and those who claim to be part of antifa.