Cayce "Wet Cell Battery" Care to discuss???

[ENS Audio]

Stumbled across this article and was wondering if anyone here has any knowledge of this radical type of therapy and if I should continue of being skeptical of this therapy.


Thanks,

http://www.edgarcayce.org/health/database/chdata/data/thwetcel.html

 

[PRR]

> Edgar Cayce

Cayce freely gave advice which is sometimes common-sense and sometimes unconventional.

He had some interesting successes. But he gave a LOT of advice and a cynic would say sometimes you get lucky. I do think he was an honest man with an uncommon compulsion or posession.

Ed's dead, and I'm not sure readings he gave for one person can be used for others. There are people who attempt to preserve and extend his healings. I think whatever he had was unique, and if he really had something it was so far beyond our understanding that it can't be duplicated.

This battery is very strange. From anybody else I'd call it deliberate fraud. If it is indeed from a Cayce reading, I'll accept that Cayce offered it in good faith, BUT also that he may have suggested it not for electrochemical reasons but as a ritual to mend the mind.

Safe? I don't think the ~~1 Volt does anything to you, and I don't think any of the magic chemical comes up the wire. Objectively, 1V of gold-tainted electricity won't harm or heal a small wart. If you are sick, conventional (surgery, drugs, meditation) treatments seem like far better bets. MDs still can't heal you, but they now know a little more than when Cayce was working, and there are more things they can change to allow you to heal yourself.

Un-safe in that it calls for you to handle strong acid and other powerful chemicals. The description does cover the obvious conventional safety precautions; even noting Lead's toxicity (which was not deeply appreciated in Cayce's time). And of course in that it is a distraction in treating progressive disease when there is conventional and effective therapy.

Expensive, even for a small market. Perhaps the battery materials must meet precise specifications (though I suspect Cayce expected the original reading to be filled at any chemical supply house), and perhaps Baar subsidizes Cayce research, so the $215 may be justifiable. However, $1.75 for a paint-stick usually given-away free with a $14 gallon of paint seems high. (It ships for $6.50 which I suppose is the going rate.)

> continue of being skeptical of this therapy.

I think Cayce would approve of your skepticism. When not Reading, Cayce knew very little about his treatments, much more modest than some of his supporters.

 

[mouse]

what are you trying to treat?

 

[ENS Audio]

[quote author="mouse"]what are you trying to treat?[/quote]

I had the idea that this device would have somewhat the same or lesser type of benefits that you would get through those ultrasound machines that are used in physical therapy, the kind that stimulate the neuro-muscular system and help break up scar tissue.

Obviously this battery wouldnt have the same results but considering that there might be some chance that the small surrent/voltage would cause some phisiological stimulation relaxation, if theres any scientific evidence of this (eventually id like to major in neurophisiology or something related )

 

[Emperor-TK]

I can't possibly imagine what that will do for you, unless DC voltage has healing properties. As PRR mentioned, none of the chemicals will travel up through the wire into your body. The details of the hookup are a little confusing to me, but I can offer this speculation: It is possible that the battery is being used to power a redox reaction in the "solution jar". Gold chloride and silver nitrate can both be reduced to elemental metals under DC current with the right cell setup. This electrochemical cell, when hooked up to a galvanic cell (the acid battery) will load that cell proportional to the extent of the chemical reaction in the "solution jar". The net result is that the DC voltage available to your body will slowly change as a function of time. If that is indeed what is happening, then there are much easier ways of setting up a similar apparatus. I see no means where anything similar to ultrasound can be produced, nor any means where any chemicals can enter your body (unless you splash yourself when setting up the device).

-Chris

 

[mouse]

some people do feel better with low level dc current but not for the reasons you are thinking. look at hulda clarks books for more on that

i can think of a dozen ways to help break up scar tissue if that is your goal.

 

[ENS Audio]

[quote author="mouse"]
i can think of a dozen ways to help break up scar tissue if that is your goal.[/quote]

Ealier this year, I had undergone physical therapy due to being in a hit n run while driving home and I found the ultrasound therapy and this other type of machine that work in a similar way to US.

For being someone who has always kept myself in good physical condition with stretching, e.t.c and after several months of the physical therapy I actually feel better now than I did before the accident. Since then it has increased my interest even more so in how Ultrasound, magnetic fields affect a persons phisiology.

 

[PRR]

> The details of the hookup are a little confusing to me

This is how I read it.

> possible that the battery is being used to power a redox reaction in the "solution jar".

The "element wire" seems to run un-broken through the solution jar.

Since Lead is a pretty decent conductor, the voltage "across" the solution is, IMHO, smaller than any conventional electro-chemical process potential. Most reactions take a few volts. I've not bothered to look-up the copper-nickel EMF because I know it can't be over a Volt (it may be near zero?). This small battery voltage is divided between <<1 ohm in the Lead wire and >>1,000 ohms through the body.

There is "no" conventional electrochemistry happening in the solution jar.

What you do get is gold-crap or silver-crap on the lead wire.

I don't see any conventionally-rational way to believe any gold or iron or camphor flows up the wire into the body. And there are other ways to get iron or camphor if you want them. You can even buy goldwasser, which may not heal your scar, but you could stop caring.

> break up scar tissue.

This won't put you back on the ballet stage tomorrow; nor will ultrasound or papaya injections.

Scar tissue does get better, at least less-ugly, over the years. Therefore any long-running treatment which does no harm is liable to "do good".

My own big-scar was neatly done and quickly stitched. (Gut surgery, opened like a fish.) I know how frustrating it was to have this big stiff seam up my tummy. It is maybe 80% back to "normal" after 6 years. That first year was annoying, and 3 years before it didn't bother me every day. A car-accident must be much less neatly-ripped and not put together so quick/neat. I understand why you want this to work.

At $200+, it is cheaper than many treatments which don't do much. There is some risk your cat will drink the acid and get sick; you are wise enough to be careful. Simply laying there for 30 minutes a day visualizing the gold-flavor electrons coursing through and breaking up scar tissue may work, even if it is an illusion to focus the mind/body energy. And it gives you the idea you are "doing something" while waiting for whatever healing happens over the years.

 

[JohnRoberts]

http://www.wellmark.com/e_business/provider/medical_policies/policies/fracture_healing_devices.htm

There are known physiological effects from electric current. I recall a friend with a broken leg back in '60s that wasn't mending who used some kind of electrical treatment.

There is something going on... maybe more.

JR

 

[mouse]

This won't put you back on the ballet stage tomorrow; nor will ultrasound or papaya injections.
>

how do you know until you try?

" argue for your limitations and they are yours to keep"

fresh papaya, not injections, is a great way to break up scar tissue. as a poultice, or eaten copiously, and especially the fresh seeds which will also clean out your intestines of worms and accumulated waste. they taste like battery acid though.

 

[ENS Audio]

Heh, now that I think of it the battery setup looks more like one of those
gold/tin plating kits :green: Gotta hand it to PRR for explaining this stuff...makes much sense and I'll probably pass with the battery idea.

 

[Emperor-TK]

The battery will put out about 0.6V at 25degC.

The hookup you show for the solution jar was the one that I read too, but I gave them the benefit of doubt that I must be missing something. That apparatus makes even less sense than the one that I envisioned.

>>>Most reactions take a few volts

Many common electrochemical reactions take a few volts. Many common redox reactions are also spontaneous. It wouldn't be too much of a leap to assume that a system could be purposely designed to reduce at low voltages. One way to do this would be to add weak reducing agents to the system, such as ascorbic acid (vitiman C) and chelating agents to tune the deta E of the system into the slightly negative region. pH is also a very strong factor in whether or not the reaction will be spontaneous. The silver nitrate/Hydrazine redox system is strongly positive at low pH, but as pH increases, eventually the half cell potentials crisscross and the reaction becomes non spontaneous. At this crisscross point, the voltage required for reduction is zero, and increases monotonically with pH. So for a silver nitrate/hydrazine system, there exists a pH where the reaction is not spontaneous, but will proceed slowly at 0.6V. I need to look up the half cell potentials for ascorbic acid as a function of pH, but I recall that there is a similar pH dependency. It wouldn't seem out of place if some vitamin C was being added to the "medicine", although that would probably show up in the marketing spiel.

As you pointed out, there can still be a very small voltage drop across the lead tube, and in theory, we can have a remarkably slow reaction with remarkably low loading of the battery if the system is perfectly tuned. But in reality that would be an uncontrollable and ineffective system.

Bunk I say.

-Chris

 

[Emperor-TK]

[quote author="mouse"]

how do you know until you try?

" argue for your limitations and they are yours to keep"

[/quote]

IMHO, that's a poor argument. There are many ways of predicting and assessing the potential efficacy of a medical treatment prior to engaging in a single person research trial. Before I stick a carrot up my butt each night to cure my snoring, someone better give me a reasonable explanation for the mechanism by which this is supposed to help me, or at least some controlled clinical data saying that despite better judgment, it does indeed work.* Just to be clear, I'm not saying that papaya can't help with scar tissue or that DC voltage can't speed the healing of bone. I'm just commenting on your assertion that the lack of personal first hand experience with a medical treatment precludes someone from having a opinion about its efficacy.

-Chris

* I'd love to be a fly on the wall at that trial.... Subject 122-A has exhibited a 10% reduction in episodic snoring despite being issued the rubber placebo carrot....

 

[ENS Audio]

[quote author="Emperor-TK"][quote author="mouse"]

how do you know until you try?

" argue for your limitations and they are yours to keep"

[/quote]

IMHO, that's a poor argument. There are many ways of predicting and assessing the potential efficacy of a medical treatment prior to engaging in a single person research trial. Before I stick a carrot up my butt each night to cure my snoring, someone better give me a reasonable explanation for the mechanism by which this is supposed to help me, or at least some controlled clinical data saying that despite better judgment, it does indeed work.* Just to be clear, I'm not saying that papaya can't help with scar tissue or that DC voltage can't speed the healing of bone. I'm just commenting on your assertion that the lack of personal first hand experience with a medical treatment precludes someone from having a opinion about its efficacy.

-Chris

* I'd love to be a fly on the wall at that trial.... Subject 122-A has exhibited a 10% reduction in episodic snoring despite being issued the rubber placebo carrot....[/quote]

Sometimes it seems in the Medical Sciences theres a fine line between hard-actual data and bunched up Metaphysical mumbo jumbo....and it was the placebo after all eh? :wink:

 

[Emperor-TK]

Yeah, and I'm snoring again, but I'm walking a little funny now. :wink:

 

[mouse]

you want a double blind study on eating papayas?

sorry, pfizer will not allow such dangerous activities.

 

[PRR]

> how do you know until you try?

By indirect evidence. The Cayce Battery has been around for 50+ years. Cayce is well-known among people exploring untraditional therapy. Some of these people are in-need of a treatment that conventional medicine can't offer. Athletes, dancers, people who were in accidents. The Cayce Battery seems easy to try. Many folks must try it.

If some large number of maimed dancers threw-off their crutches and danced, when conventional medicine had predicted long incomplete healing, it would be a sensation. Same for athletes who rip a groin and miss half the season.

Maybe it does work great, and there is a conspiracy to keep this fact secret from both the doctors and me.

I think it more likely that it is no miracle cure. It may, like vitamin E and some other preparations, give 1 year of healing in only 300 days.

I'm no big fan of "mental healing". But I concede it plays a part, especially stress-reduction. The Cayce Battery, as described, is a strong impressive ritual. If you "believe", it may work dandy even if you somehow got two copper rods (zero voltage).

Interesting that most links for electro-healing of bone are to insurance pages. What little theory (even marketing) I can find shows no consensus on technique, yet quotes great success rates for fractures unjoined after 3 months (you don't try heroic therapy sooner because usually fractures DO join without special treatment.) Impressive enough that insurance may pay. And voltage gradients may be in the range of the Cayce Battery.

So I dunno. If 0.6V (per Chris) does heal tissue, what is this "solution jar" doing? Will solution 4 soften scars and solution 7 heals bones but turns scars into armor-scales? Or is the solution not the answer at all?

> looks more like one of those gold/tin plating kits

It is worth knowing that Cayce spent much time in photographic chemicals, in days when techs mixed very strange brews rather than buy a bottle of Kodak or Agfa hypo. And electric therapy, car batteries, and electroplating were all sexy new-tech when he was younger. Even if you accept his trance readings as "valid", you can wonder if the exact details were dictated by his "we" (the mind who spoke when Cayce was in trance) or the technical details were supplied by Cayce's home-grown knowledge of chemicals and electricity.

> looks more like one of those gold/tin plating kits

And not even connected right. If you wanted to gold-plate your scar, you'd skip the "solution jar", pour a gold solution right on your scar, and probably use more than one 0.6V battery. I suppose it could even "work", though slowly. (The current density for reasonably fast plating is much higher than you want in your body.)

It looks to me like I was reading Audel's Electric Manual from 1923, fell asleep, and dreamed about it. The unconscious mind does not enforce rational circuitry, but takes a very impressionistic view. In that Cayce's readings were delivered in a trance, this may not be far from some truth. Even if there is a healing battery, the version we have comes from "a dream".

> That apparatus makes even less sense than the one that I envisioned.

I worked it out that way, you seem to agree; and you and I can both plug 3 things together right 9 out of 10 tries. If we are not 100% sure, what of a General Population with less wire-experience than you or I? We must assume 10%-60% of the rigs sold get hooked-up "wrong", somehow. If that were a problem, Baar would supply a pre-made cable and goof-proof plugs; no, Cayce's "we" would not suggest something which would fail for many people without clearer instructions (we hope).