changed to "wealth inequality"

[Script]

:  My boss is pretty accommodating since I own the business....

But you do have a house line and Internet.

Apart from that, same here. But simply can't do without mobile. I sell services, and although part of the job, I hate talking on the phone. I prefer email. Less intrusive and recipients can read and reply when they have time

Listening to rich people talk about tax rates can be deceiving, they already earned more money than they can spend in a lifetime, so raising taxes on other people's incomes makes their wealth harder to catch up to.

That sounds too clichè to me to be true. If it's already more than can spend in a lifetime, what would the motivation be behind such thinking? Comparing cock size?

Ask any of the self-made super rich how they feel about giving their wealth to government to spend for them.. .Rhetorical, we know the answer to that one already.

Not in my experience. Honestly, not in my experience. And I have met all sorts of people over the years, from very rich (among 500 wealthiest in one EU country -- Austria or Germany) to very poor, but mostly in between. But also a dozen who would count as upper upper wealth owners. All Europeans -- and they do not sound that different from one another. The only rich American I consciously met was a musician who got paid $1M after tax for playing a 60-minute gig with his revival band here in Tokyo. Guy was happy that all the hard work had finally paid off in just one gig. Me happy for him. But that dude didn't have a fucking clue what to do with the money.

=========
Back to Buffet -- he must be the traitor among rich people

Bezos, yeah, that donation sort of comes at the right time, doesn't it.

 

[cyrano]

Bummer getting paid for what we like to do...

A lot of companies seem to complain about their workforce being unmotivated. Having people who WANT to work, would alleviate that, I think.

And yes, I agree that simple stuff, like being on time and keeping appointments is basic. But I also know that the younger generation doesn't see it that way. A dear friend who is in HR, selects two candidates for each appointment these days, as around half of them don't show up anyways. But that too is an indication of how the times-they-are-a-changing.

I have been temporarily optimistic about several promises of really cheap energy... First nuclear energy but several missteps have dissipated momentum for next generation technology.  Even cold fusion sounded good momentarily. Almost free energy would change the game, but alas no free lunch yet.

One of the problems with solar and windenergy is that here is not a lot of money to be made. I saw some projections from the energy industry, showing that we're going to a future with very cheap energy (near zero cost was the phrase used). And a lot of people seem to think there isn't enough profit if the base product is cheap.

And Andrea Rossi, the much maligned Italian is nearly ready to start a serious cold fusion test one of these weeks. Should be interesting.

Automation is good, but IMO minimum wage entry level jobs are also good... people need to learn how to work, by working. Learn to show up on time, do what supervisors tell them, give a sh__ about the customer, etc.  In fact companies are already doing it because they can hire enough skilled workers. Retaining employees is the business equivalent of a personal problem (personnel?)

All numbers show there won't be work for everyone. It's not only automation of repetitive labor. Not just the robots at the assembly line. It's also artificial intelligence taking over skilled labor. And as long as we are talking about medical doctors getting assistance from AI, there's no problem. But we can also envision a future where AI will take over cerebral jobs, like making music.

In fact, one of the very first applications of AI in the cerebral field, was one I didn't see coming: lawyers are being replaced by software. Of course, not yet to plead a case in front of a judge, but to answer simple questions. Several of the bigger law firms are already using this. So, less places for interns and beginning lawyers.

I was drafted into the army with no quid for my quo.....I picked the longest school to burn time stateside to avoid going to viet nam, but instead of sending me to the long school they just awarded me the MOS, and sent me to Ft Riley to repair tank computers. 

It seems armies are the same everywhere. I was given a job as a driver, despite having bad eyesight.

governments can normalize taxation, being optimistic I believe it can happen.
VAT (a variant sales tax) has been floated but not sure what it solves. My concern is that I don't trust the government to create a new tax , without eliminating the old one, so we might end up with tax on top of tax.

Of course they might want to do that. But that's not part of the proposed solution, it's part of the problem. Govt wants/needs more money and the bulk of their income comes from taxes.

What an increased VAT solves, is simple: buy a lot of stuff, pay a lot of taxes. Make a lot of money, and don't buy a lot, don't pay much taxes. So what are you gonna do with that money? Save in a bank account? I'm sure the banks would welcome that. Buy stock? Would be good for the economy...

If you think about it sales tax is the more regressive tax of all... Poor people spend a larger fraction of their income than rich people. huh...

That's alleviated by the VAT system as we know it. Food is taxed at 6%, luxury goods at 33%. I believe in Denmark, fi cars are taxed at 250%.

by simple life do you mean off grid, under the table?VAT and not working are not somehow linked... just another tax. (Is my foam showing?). Father time will kill us all...

I never said they were inherently linked. But in this system, you have the choice. There are not much people living off the grid in Europe, that seems to be more of a US/Canadian thing. You have the wide open spaces. In Europe these are mostly gone.

And, no, the foam wasn't aimed at you, John. Just at some rabied people I meet all the time that don't seem to like things they see as "alien" to their culture.

Not only VAT, but also EBU 128, fi. I've been "threatened" by someone on another forum, for writing about it. He seemed to think that the EBU wanted to force the US broadcast sector to adopt it. EBU128 isn't an obligation, it's a recommendation. And, obviously for the Euro broadcast sector.

Also, I didn't take hist "threat" seriously, but the mods did. "Cutting throats" didn't feel right to them, even when it was phrased: "Do you think I'm gonna take a plane and cross the ocean to cut your throat?" Knowing he was military, it sounded just like the kind of speech a soldier would use...

 

[cyrano]

Then why do the poverty stricken want to come to America?

It's a stream from the south to the north. And that is driven by climate change. People are getting poorer around the equator. Some are going south, but that's a little known fact. Brazil, fi has seen a lot of immigrants from central America too. And so has Argentina. And Brazil has also seen a lot of immigrants from Lebanon, Palestine and Syria. Mostly the richer part of the population. Those who could pay for an expensive flight.

That's not to say poverty hasn't got something to do with it, but it's not the main factor.

A lot of it is the image some countries have. Like the UK being the main destination for refugees coming into Europe. One reason is that fi London already has a large population of people from Africa and Asia, but the most mentioned by transmigrants is the fact that you don't need to carry an ID in the UK. And starting a business is a lot simpler in the UK than in most other countries.

The USA likes to project an image of the country with the most opportunity to get rich. I don't know if that is true, but that's beside the fact. That image is driving immigrants. Surely, if you are poor, getting rich is your most important dream?

 

[JohnRoberts]

But you do have a house line and Internet.

Apart from that, same here. But simply can't do without mobile. I sell services, and although part of the job, I hate talking on the phone. I prefer email. Less intrusive and recipients can read and reply when they have time

Talking to people on the phone sucks less than talking to modern AI.  When I try to troubleshoot an intermittent DSL modem, the AI voice sounds pretty believable, but then they add some fake keyboard clicks to deceive customers into thinking they are dealing with a real human who is typing into a computer terminal. They even add fake delays to support the illusion.     

That sounds too clichè to me to be true. If it's already more than can spend in a lifetime, what would the motivation be behind such thinking? Comparing cock size?

You think uber rich don't keep score...? While it is pointless to argue about what people think. Conspicuous consumption is why some high end consumer products even exist (like Pucho's obscenely expensive amps). 

Not in my experience. Honestly, not in my experience. And I have met all sorts of people over the years, from very rich (among 500 wealthiest in one EU country -- Austria or Germany) to very poor, but mostly in between. But also a dozen who would count as upper upper wealth owners. All Europeans -- and they do not sound that different from one another. The only rich American I consciously met was a musician who got paid $1M after tax for playing a 60-minute gig with his revival band here in Tokyo. Guy was happy that all the hard work had finally paid off in just one gig. Me happy for him. But that dude didn't have a f**king clue what to do with the money.

=========
Back to Buffet -- he must be the traitor among rich people

He is pretty well respected for his investment success...  He already made his money so talking about raising income taxes now is talking about other people's income.  I am sure many don't respect his politics, two different things.

Bezos, yeah, that donation sort of comes at the right time, doesn't it.

Perhaps starting a little late considering his massive personal wealth, but he has time to build a portfolio of charity spending, before entering any race for public office.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

It's a stream from the south to the north. And that is driven by climate change.

:

People are getting poorer around the equator. Some are going south, but that's a little known fact. Brazil, fi has seen a lot of immigrants from central America too. And so has Argentina. And Brazil has also seen a lot of immigrants from Lebanon, Palestine and Syria. Mostly the richer part of the population. Those who could pay for an expensive flight.

There are a few million in Syria right now worrying about a possible gas (chlorine) attack... Their concerns are more pressing than economic.

That's not to say poverty hasn't got something to do with it, but it's not the main factor.

After personal security (that does drive a lot of immigration from some central-south american countries), economic opportunity is IMO the primary driver.  Tunisia the poster boy for the arab spring movement, is suffering from weak economic conditions which drives young people to move toward wealth and jobs.

A lot of it is the image some countries have. Like the UK being the main destination for refugees coming into Europe. One reason is that fi London already has a large population of people from Africa and Asia, but the most mentioned by transmigrants is the fact that you don't need to carry an ID in the UK. And starting a business is a lot simpler in the UK than in most other countries.

is "fi" slang for something... I can't find it on google? 

I can't know what all immigrants "think" but EU level government entitlements are probably attractive to some. While the actual benefits available are probably rumoured to be better than they actually are. 

The USA likes to project an image of the country with the most opportunity to get rich. I don't know if that is true, but that's beside the fact. That image is driving immigrants. Surely, if you are poor, getting rich is your most important dream?

Rich is a relative term. The american poverty level ($20k+) looks pretty good to people from a lot of countries.  It is human nature to want to provide food and shelter for our families, and to pursue a better future. America appears to offer that promise to many living in desperate circumstances.

JR

 

[Script]

Perhaps starting a little late considering his [i.e., Bezos] massive personal wealth, but he has time to build a portfolio of charity spending, before entering any race for public office.

Lol.  ;D Yeah, I see that too. And we wouldn't really be surprised... 

Too bad Buffet never ran for office. Might have been intresting (speaking purely hypothetically here -- and from outside the US).

 

[cyrano]

:There are a few million in Syria right now worrying about a possible gas (chlorine) attack... Their concerns are more pressing than economic. After personal security (that does drive a lot of immigration from some central-south american countries), economic opportunity is IMO the primary driver.  Tunisia the poster boy for the arab spring movement, is suffering from weak economic conditions which drives young people to move toward wealth and jobs. is "fi" slang for something... I can't find it on google? 

fi = for instance.

Every country in the Maghreb is struggling. Yet there aren't that many Tunisians in Europe, compared to Moroccans or Turks.

I can't know what all immigrants "think" but EU level government entitlements are probably attractive to some. While the actual benefits available are probably rumoured to be better than they actually are.  Rich is a relative term. The american poverty level ($20k+) looks pretty good to people from a lot of countries.  It is human nature to want to provide food and shelter for our families, and to pursue a better future. America appears to offer that promise to many living in desperate circumstances.

JR

Of course, John. There's more than one motive. Mexicans could be escaping poverty, or violence.

The point is, it probably won't stop because life around the equator is getting harder and harder.

Europe is seeing more and more species that weren't here before. Like the tiger mosquito. 3 confirmed deaths (because of Western Nile fever) in Northern Italy. In Holland the mayor of Venlo is calling for the army to help. And these aren't economical refugees, like some humans. Some native insect species' counts are down 75% compared to a decade ago. All due to warming.

 

[JohnRoberts]

fi = for instance.

Every country in the Maghreb is struggling. Yet there aren't that many Tunisians in Europe, compared to Moroccans or Turks.

maybe they drowned in the mediterranean

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/migrant-crisis-mediterranean-africa-europe-tunisia-spain-a8381876.html

Of course, John. There's more than one motive. Mexicans could be escaping poverty, or violence.

or both.. while these days more immigration pressure from central america where drug and gang violence is occuring.  We need to do more to help them stabilize their own countries rather than escaping to let conditions decline even further.

The point is, it probably won't stop because life around the equator is getting harder and harder.

There is a correlation between GDP wealth and increasing distance from the equator, but carried to absurdia the most wealthy are not at the North and south pole.  Correlation does not mean causation, the poverty in Venezuela is not caused by global warming, even though their decline from most wealthy nation in So American correlates with global temperature increase.  :

[edit] BTW Cuba is less than 100 miles from Florida while the wealth disparity correlates with distance from the equator, it surely does not cause the difference. [/edit]

Europe is seeing more and more species that weren't here before. Like the tiger mosquito. 3 confirmed deaths (because of Western Nile fever) in Northern Italy. In Holland the mayor of Venlo is calling for the army to help. And these aren't economical refugees, like some humans. Some native insect species' counts are down 75% compared to a decade ago. All due to warming.

The earth has always been warming and cooling, wait for the next ice age if you want some drama.

JR

PS: MS has reported 26 cases of west nile so far this year... I work hard to prevent standing water around my property where mosquitoes breed, to prevent spread of WNV (west nile virus). The town also sprays periodically.

 

[cyrano]

maybe they drowned in the mediterranean

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/migrant-crisis-mediterranean-africa-europe-tunisia-spain-a8381876.html

I hope not. Could be one of the more stable countries, like Morocco. But we have a lot of Moroccans living here cause we invited them in the 60's. We didn't invite Tunisians. France has a lot of Algerians, cause Algeria once was a French colony. Germany has a lot of Turks. Etc.

Also, it's not because the boat was coming out of Tunesia it was carrying Tunisians. Probably more people from Iraq, Algeria and Libia. There's a lot of fighting goin' on since their dictators were eliminated.

or both.. while these days more immigration pressure from central america where drug and gang violence is occuring.  We need to do more to help them stabilize their own countries rather than escaping to let conditions decline even further. There is a correlation between GDP wealth and increasing distance from the equator, but carried to absurdia the most wealthy are not at the North and south pole.  Correlation does not mean causation, the poverty in Venezuela is not caused by global warming, even though their decline from most wealthy nation in So American correlates with global temperature increase.  :

[edit] BTW Cuba is less than 100 miles from Florida while the wealth disparity correlates with distance from the equator, it surely does not cause the difference. [/edit]The earth has always been warming and cooling, wait for the next ice age if you want some drama.

Yes, the earth has seen many periods of cooling and warming, but not at the current pace. Exceptions are the decade long winter in the 13th century that killed half of Europe's population. It was caused by ashes in the atmosphere from a gigantic volcanic eruption in Asia. These ashes blocked the sunlight. Several years had it freezing in August. Harvests ruined for seven or eight years in a row. Massive famine, resulting in disease.

PS: MS has reported 26 cases of west nile so far this year... I work hard to prevent standing water around my property where mosquitoes breed, to prevent spread of WNV (west nile virus). The town also sprays periodically.

You also have fire ants, I believe. Interesting species. 

In France, giant African slugs were discovered (again) this summer. Up to 8" long, with colors varying from black to pink to deep purple. They were previously seen from '99 on, but biologists neglected the reports 'till now cause they figured someone was tricking them. You might ask how they got here, as they are rather slow and can't swim. Their eggs stick to birds' feet. At least, that's the going theory.

And Paris has had African termites for over 20 years.

But the decline in native insect species is mostly linked to pest control and loss of habitat. Especially for butterflies. Native mosquito's can't stand temperatures over 25°C for a long time, so this dry hot summer killed most of them.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I hope not. Could be one of the more stable countries, like Morocco. But we have a lot of Moroccans living here cause we invited them in the 60's. We didn't invite Tunisians. France has a lot of Algerians, cause Algeria once was a French colony. Germany has a lot of Turks. Etc.

Also, it's not because the boat was coming out of Tunesia it was carrying Tunisians. Probably more people from Iraq, Algeria and Libia. There's a lot of fighting goin' on since their dictators were eliminated.

Instability increasing in Libya nearby is causing migration from Tunisia.

Yes, the earth has seen many periods of cooling and warming, but not at the current pace.

long period cycles... hard to declare that the period has changed from short term observation.

Exceptions are the decade long winter in the 13th century that killed half of Europe's population. It was caused by ashes in the atmosphere from a gigantic volcanic eruption in Asia. These ashes blocked the sunlight. Several years had it freezing in August. Harvests ruined for seven or eight years in a row. Massive famine, resulting in disease.


You also have fire ants, I believe. Interesting species. 

mother F'n fire ants...   you want some, I'll mail them to you?

In France, giant African slugs were discovered (again) this summer. Up to 8" long, with colors varying from black to pink to deep purple. They were previously seen from '99 on, but biologists neglected the reports 'till now cause they figured someone was tricking them. You might ask how they got here, as they are rather slow and can't swim. Their eggs stick to birds' feet. At least, that's the going theory.

The french will cook them...  (no offense guys).

And Paris has had African termites for over 20 years.

You want me to send some of them too?

But the decline in native insect species is mostly linked to pest control and loss of habitat. Especially for butterflies. Native mosquito's can't stand temperatures over 25°C for a long time, so this dry hot summer killed most of them.

I think the town insecticide spraying helps here... but i can send you some mosquitoes that would consider 25'C comfortable (35'C+ here today).

JR

PS: Seriously.. the propensity for tropical storms to gain energy from the warm equatorial water, no doubt affects intensity of local cyclones/hurricanes there (pick your continent). In MS when tornadoes blow down the same house twice they don't rebuild it and sell the land to a trailer park.  : In central america they move north or south after multiple tropical storm trashings. 

 

[cyrano]

Thanks for the offers John, but I think I can do without...

We eat "petits gris" too, here in Belgium. With blood sausage, but that's a Spanish recipe. Delicious.

I hear tornado's love trailer parks...  8)

 

[desol]

The earth has always been warming and cooling, wait for the next ice age if you want some drama.

JR

Off topic in regards to a slight tidbit. Sure the Earth has gone through heating and cooling cycles...but we haven't been burning billions of tons of fossil fuels until quite recently. Time to stop denying imo, and time to start thinking about those in the future.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

 

[Script]

He [i.e., Warren Buffet] is pretty well respected for his investment success...  He already made his money so talking about raising income taxes now is talking about other people's income.  I am sure many don't respect his politics, two different things.

Well, Buffet's statement might point to
(1) making the uber rich pay the same taxes (in percentage) like all other people do (maybe by abolishing both negative gain deductabilities and capital gains tax being lower than income tax).
(2) Or rather it might point to abolishing taxes for incomes below an annual income of $90,000.

The second it what I understand "rasing the tax base to $90,000" means -- not raising taxes for the rich to or by $90,000.

.

Mr. D. Trump has actually, well kind of, dropped something even more radical, although somewhat hidden in the first few seconds of this press conference.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qecBKFrqr0E
"Tariffs can be a very good thing. You know, in the old days, when we had tariffs, we didn't have income tax."

He is speaking about tariffs here (cos the US has to tackle the export deficit and reduce state debts) and seems to link that to the rather unrelated issue of immigration. The connecting part is mentioning "no income tax". Not sure I can fully follow that logic, but anyway, the idea of "no income tax" would indeed be some sort of revolution, considering the times we live in.

Will we see it? -- Unlikely, in light of massive US state debts.

But maybe it's a mistake on his side and he meant: "no corporate tax"!? Which I think I remember having read about as a special deal offered to Apple. But I might be mistaken here.

 

[Script]

Here's more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-F5p6EqIs

Has anything of what D. Trump said here been implemented already?
(Just asking because I seem unable to find anything on the net.)

 

[JohnRoberts]

Off topic in regards to a slight tidbit. Sure the Earth has gone through heating and cooling cycles...but we haven't been burning billions of tons of fossil fuels until quite recently. Time to stop denying imo, and time to start thinking about those in the future.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

Do you find name calling (denier) an effective debate technique? 

The earth's recent temperature is an objective fact, give or take some minor monkey business with stats.

I will even concede that CO2 is responsible just for the sake of argument (my actual belief is that it is more complicated than any one variable).

My complaint is about feel good policy suggestions that A) do not change the atmospheric carbon content for centuries, and B) massive wealth redistribution programs that are only very weakly justified by climate science. To put it plainly a massive power/wealth grab using climate change as an excuse (they even changed the name of it from global warming to climate change to avoid embarrassing data.)  : 

If we collectively decided to cool the planet we could. But as I have been warning for years be careful what you wish for because climate is a very complicated and when you mess with nature you can get unintended consequences. I support more research and better understanding, but this is not as simple as many want to believe.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Well, Buffet's statement might point to
(1) making the uber rich pay the same taxes (in percentage) like all other people do (maybe by abolishing both negative gain deductabilities and capital gains tax being lower than income tax).

Are you talking about removing progressive tax rate schedule?

His favorite straw man comparison is his secretary/assistant's modest regular income, vs his long term capital gains. Warren Buffet pays himself with one share of stock a year (albeit a pretty valuable share of berkshire hathaway "a").

(2) Or rather it might point to abolishing taxes for incomes below an annual income of $90,000.

our progressive tax rates are already pretty low for low income earners.

The second it what I understand "rasing the tax base to $90,000" means -- not raising taxes for the rich to or by $90,000.

"tax base" means something else for tax discussion (pool of people paying taxes).

.

Mr. D. Trump has actually, well kind of, dropped something even more radical, although somewhat hidden in the first few seconds of this press conference.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qecBKFrqr0E
"Tariffs can be a very good thing. You know, in the old days, when we had tariffs, we didn't have income tax."

A only slightly mangled version of actual history....
https://pocketsense.com/united-states-government-funded-prior-income-tax-12769.html

Prior to the passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913, the United States government funded its operations mainly through excise taxes, tariffs, customs duties and public land sales. The federal government had relatively few expenses compared to today and did not have as much need to raise large amounts of money.

He is speaking about tariffs here (cos the US has to tackle the export deficit and reduce state debts) and seems to link that to the rather unrelated issue of immigration. The connecting part is mentioning "no income tax". Not sure I can fully follow that logic, but anyway, the idea of "no income tax" would indeed be some sort of revolution, considering the times we live in.

Will we see it? -- Unlikely, in light of massive US state debts.

But maybe it's a mistake on his side and he meant: "no corporate tax"!? Which I think I remember having read about as a special deal offered to Apple. But I might be mistaken here.

Trying to parse President Trumps tweets or uttering literally is not productive... He like to throw out extreme positions then negotiate toward some middle of the road solution. He does manage to keep his critics busy with the social media chum...

JR

 

[Script]

See what you mean. But it wasn't a social media tweet, it was a press conference.

But indeed, often very difficult to say or understand what D. Trump wants to say. That's exactly why I don't read his tweets and hardly even watch his speeches. All too confusing.

As for Warren Buffet -- don't know. Another favourite of his is saying that his class is winning and that they shouldn't. God knows what he meant by that.

.

Anyway, back to Trump. That's why I posted the second link. This one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-F5p6EqIs

Trump here is talking at length about streamlining deduction and reducing income tax for working people, so that they end up with up to 35%(?) more of what they earn.

I really confess to not following Trump-related news much, for the above reasons, but has he or his administration touched any of what he proposed there? I'm asking for real, cos I do not know.

 

[desol]

Do you find name calling (denier) an effective debate technique? 

The earth's recent temperature is an objective fact, give or take some minor monkey business with stats.

I will even concede that CO2 is responsible just for the sake of argument (my actual belief is that it is more complicated than any one variable).

My complaint is about feel good policy suggestions that A) do not change the atmospheric carbon content for centuries, and B) massive wealth redistribution programs that are only very weakly justified by climate science. To put it plainly a massive power/wealth grab using climate change as an excuse (they even changed the name of it from global warming to climate change to avoid embarrassing data.)  : 

If we collectively decided to cool the planet we could. But as I have been warning for years be careful what you wish for because climate is a very complicated and when you mess with nature you can get unintended consequences. I support more research and better understanding, but this is not as simple as many want to believe.

JR

I wasn't name calling or attempting to debate!!..at all! Just an(possibly incorrect) assumption based from your statement and, possible right of center? political leaning? Don't all republicans make it a point to deny climate change exists or is a partial result of burning oil? God forbid we would have to alter our cushy way of life and stifle the economy!

As such, president Trump doesn't seem to think so!

 

[Matador]

This seemed like the best place to put this.

The TLR; the deficit is rising, which McConnell is blaming entitlements.  The deficit has increased 100% since 2015, and the CBO estimates it will reach 1T this year, despite the economy growing modestly (remember Mnuchin's promise that the 'tax cuts would pay for themselves'?)  It's odd that the tax cut doesn't seem to factor in his calculus (which McConnell also promised would be revenue neutral).

It's like lobbying to force the fire department to squirt gasoline on fires instead of water, then blaming the fire department at how quickly the fires are spreading.

 

[john12ax7]

It's funny how the deficit no longer matters now that a R is in office.