Changes to water treatment

[cyrano]

Due to the Corona situation (and because it's free  ) I've been calling some friends I haven't heard in years. Some of them from way back, when I worked for that water treatment company.

One of them is head of analysis at the water distribution company. He told me they've observed decayed Corona DNA, not only in waste water, but also in source water. Source water could be cleaned waste water, which gets added to well water. And lately, the ground water level has been going down, so I presume there's more cleaned waste water that gets added these days.

Something I need to contemplate...

 

[Tubetec]

Yeah there not quite in the same flavour league as a Chimay  or Westmalle ,
Still though they pack a punch .
I guess the times were in , Im finding myself splashing out a bit extra on  premium food treats, good bread,
good milk ,good tea , I may have to re-aquaint my taste buds with premium special beers soon too ,life is short FFS.

No real surprise remnents of the modern day plague are to be found in the pipes , and explains the chlorine dosing situation,
no excuse for not investing in proper modern water treatment now , unless of course the master plan is a cull or at very least a drastic decrease in life expectancy  :-X

 

[Tubetec]

So ,I took a trip up to the waterworks , which is still run by the county council ,not the entity 'Irish Water' .
I made my way into the building unoticed , I startled the poor woman in the office when I peered through the window and knocked in my usual Barbour style waxed hat ,gold tinted aviator shades and big beard befitting something  from the 1916 rising  ;D

I got to chat with one of the technicians , he explained the dosing is controlled by water levels at the collection point in the river ,so its basically linked to the amount of  rainfall . Im expecting a call from them soon to test the water from my tap . They seemed a little anxious to get me to report the issue directly to Irish water , but I explained I wasnt going to be doing that on account of their reputation , both of them had a little chuckle and nodded in agreement .

So anyway Ive put new measures in place in the household , first one of the older style Brita  jugs without any filter just to allow the chlorine evaporate before its poured through the newer style filter unit , I also swapped out the stupid digital timer on the new jug with the older style thumb wheel date reminder . Bottled spring water wasnt making the greatest cups of tea as there was a tendency for scum to form up and float to the top , also the hardness of it was causing a build up inside the kettle .

I'm just wondering if theres anything I could do with simple chemistry to scavenge/ bind some of the extra chlorine in my first stage jug and maybe help the active carbon filter work a little better/ longer .
The newer style filter cartridge is good for 1 month or 100 liters of water and costs 8 euros, a bit pricey really , I may end up looking into the under sink style filter at a later date .

 

[cyrano]

Try an aquarium pump to aerate the water?

I'm not aware of any simple chemistry to remove chlorine from tap water.

 

[JohnRoberts]

So ,I took a trip up to the waterworks , which is still run by the county council ,not the entity 'Irish Water' .
I made my way into the building unoticed , I startled the poor woman in the office when I peered through the window and knocked in my usual Barbour style waxed hat ,gold tinted aviator shades and big beard befitting something  from the 1916 rising  ;D

I got to chat with one of the technicians , he explained the dosing is controlled by water levels at the collection point in the river ,so its basically linked to the amount of  rainfall . Im expecting a call from them soon to test the water from my tap . They seemed a little anxious to get me to report the issue directly to Irish water , but I explained I wasnt going to be doing that on account of their reputation , both of them had a little chuckle and nodded in agreement .

So anyway Ive put new measures in place in the household , first one of the older style Brita  jugs without any filter just to allow the chlorine evaporate before its poured through the newer style filter unit , I also swapped out the stupid digital timer on the new jug with the older style thumb wheel date reminder . Bottled spring water wasnt making the greatest cups of tea as there was a tendency for scum to form up and float to the top , also the hardness of it was causing a build up inside the kettle .

I'm just wondering if theres anything I could do with simple chemistry to scavenge/ bind some of the extra chlorine in my first stage jug and maybe help the active carbon filter work a little better/ longer .
The newer style filter cartridge is good for 1 month or 100 liters of water and costs 8 euros, a bit pricey really , I may end up looking into the under sink style filter at a later date .

I've used a Reverse osmosis filter for decades, long enough that I've replaced most of the components at least once. I am probably past due to replace the sediment filter (on inlet to trap mostly rusty looking sediment), after the RO unit there is a carbon filter, after the filters I have a UVc lamp to disinfect the clean water, because anaerobic microbes can get established in the pure water after you remove the disinfectant chlorine etc.

I have hundred of dollars invested over the years but all worth it IMO.  In one of my later upgrades I scaled up to a larger storage tank to make it easier to pull several gallons quickly for my beer brewing (duh).

JR

 

[AusTex64]

Chlorine in well water and city tap water is a great compromise. Greatly reduced (essentially eliminated) risk of contracting bacteria related illness like dysentery. It protects the water in pipes and bottles that sits there a while, sometimes pretty warm. We’ve accepted the risk of consuming chlorine as an acceptable tradeoff for less disease. BTW people absorb much more chlorine from showering and swimming in pools than ingesting. Anyway, the optimum solution is have chlorine in the water in your delivery system until it makes it inside your house. Then get rid of it with a carbon filter. PRR, I’m on a well too. Here’s my water system:

Well - 2500 gal storage/ treatment tank -booster pump - pressure tank - 20 micron pleated filter - softener - 3 cubic foot carbon filter - into the house

I chlorinate the raw well water going into the holding tank. I have a lot of iron and magnesium. Also hydrogen sulfites (the egg sulphur well water smell). It’s harmless but smells bad. The chlorine in the tank does several things - kills bacteria, kills the sulfites, and oxidizes the iron into clumps, which allows the carbon filter to remove them.  There is zero smell in the shower of chlorine or sulfites. I really notice the chlorine now when I travel and shower with municipal water.  And I haven’t mentioned chloramines yet. They are the carcinogenic particles left over from what the chlorine kills in the water. The carbon filter takes care of those too.

Drinking water is RO filtered in the kitchen, and also fed to the fridge for ice and cold water. I do taste tests with guests all time against bottled water and win almost always.  JR, the UV filter on the RO drinking water is a capital idea. Going shopping soon.

I’ll tell you, if I can afford it, I’ll never have a house without a whole house carbon filter. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

Drinking water is RO filtered in the kitchen, and also fed to the fridge for ice and cold water. I do taste tests with guests all time against bottled water and win almost always.  JR, the UV filter on the RO drinking water is a capital idea. Going shopping soon.

I’ll tell you, if I can afford it, I’ll never have a house without a whole house carbon filter.

There may be cheaper sources out there but mine looks like this...  https://www.discountfilterstore.com/35010-hydrologic-uv-water-sterilizer-reverse-osmosis.html

[edit- here this is cheaper ... https://www.amazon.com/Microfilter-light-sanitizer-6watts-ballast/dp/B00SW2O8TW /edit]

JR

 

[PRR]

My trouble with UV is there is no Standard Product. Buy one, maybe change the lamp once, and then the product is discontinued, you can't get parts, you gotta replace the whole thing. Not a dollar disaster but an annoying re-plumbing for a different size unit. That's actually why we switched to bottles.

AusTex64, your water is worse than mine. I could easily drink the surface water that runs off Jimmy's land, through peat, and into my front swamp. Sure it has some porcupine poop and tannins, but people have drunk worse for thousands of years. Dysentery is a city-disease, not out here with more water than neighbors.

You guys check me on something. Don't RO or softeners "waste" more water than they deliver? On an old tired well and no good use for greywater, I'm not keen on that.

 

[JohnRoberts]

My trouble with UV is there is no Standard Product. Buy one, maybe change the lamp once, and then the product is discontinued, you can't get parts, you gotta replace the whole thing. Not a dollar disaster but an annoying re-plumbing for a different size unit. That's actually why we switched to bottles.

I have an anecdote that almost resembles that... life with UV fluorescent lamps is not great... After X years the bulb in my UV water unit went out, so I purchased a replacement bulb... but no love, the new bulb did not light, then I replaced the ballast power lump and still no love. Finally I bit the bullet and bought a new replacement unit to get my system back to 100%.

After a while I decided to dig deeper into my failure to ignite the replacement UV tube and discovered a starter cobbled into the wiring. This starter was apparently what went bad, not the tube or ballast. I couldn't source the exact replacement starter, but took apart a generic fluorescent starter, wired it to the lamp and presto now it lights, but being no longer needed I took it apart and repurposed the UV light to kill stuff elsewhere around the casa. 

Had I been a little more patient I could have given this old one to austex... but the generic starter was hanging off the end, would be a hodge podge. I think the vendor started providing starters with replacement bulbs but I bought a generic tube elsewhere.

AusTex64, your water is worse than mine. I could easily drink the surface water that runs off Jimmy's land, through peat, and into my front swamp. Sure it has some porcupine poop and tannins, but people have drunk worse for thousands of years. Dysentery is a city-disease, not out here with more water than neighbors.

yup with wells you need to worry about the neighbors poop...

You guys check me on something. Don't RO or softeners "waste" more water than they deliver?

I do not have the numbers at hand but that was another thing that failed on my RO system and needed repair... There is a flow restrictor that limits the volume of the discharge waste water. Before I figured out that mine was broken I was pushing so much water I noticed it on my bill.

The discharge water (brine) is still usable for watering plants, flushing toilets, all kinds of stuff...

On an old tired well and no good use for greywater, I'm not keen on that.

You could discharge the brine back into your well... but for small volume use simple counter top filters probably work OK.

How much water waste is produced?

Simple answer: About 4 gallons wasted per 1 gallon purified (4:1) if you are on a municipal water supply with good pressure, or about 1:1 if you have the permeate pump.*

Detailed answer: The amount of water waste and clean water produced are intertwined. So before you can understand what is coming out of the system, you'll have to understand what is going into the system. All production and waste water figures are calculated at 77°F, 70psi and 250ppm NaCl input challenge load.

Below 40psi the system will not work and will only produce waste water. So if you are have a private well, check your pump and consider the length and the rise, from the well pump, to the location of the RO system when setting performance expectations and making the decision to add an electric booster pump.

Permeate Pump   

A non-electric, water-saving device which dramatically improves Reverse Osmosis system efficiency.
Permeate Pump  is a non-electric pump which uses only the hydraulic movement of the brine water (water going down the drain like a water wheel) to pull additional purified water (i.e. “permeate”) into your storage tank.  The increased pressure allows the RO membrane to operate as if within an atmospheric tank system without back pressure.  Use of a Permeate Pump lengthens membrane life, increases system performance, and provides other important benefits as detailed below. The permeate pump is A GREENER ALTERNATIVE TO "ZERO-WASTE" RO SYSTEMS.

  https://www.theperfectwater.com/waste-water.html

Years ago I added a permeate pump to my system before I figured out that my flow restrictor was not restricting flow. 

My system is pretty tight... The technology for consumer RO has improved in the decades since I first started using it.

JR

PS: Note to self....  past due time to replace my filters.