COVID-19

[r2d2]

I don't understand the other post about "paying for the dead" so I'm starting this thread as a general COVID-19 discussion. I'm sure people have thoughts. I do. None good.

Let me say absolutely no one intention  to "play" with tragedies !!!

But just to talk about the various "faces" of the event ,
(include economy damages and deaths)

and also pointing out the fact if  is a right "direction"  where  the world is going ,

it is not true that the world scientific community from several years  warns that that city model
(cluster of humans in "small" spaces)  exposes strongly the people to the viral epidemics ?
(rest of many troubles apart…)

too much large difference in people's sanitary practices and especially in the types of food and their processing ,
preparation, storage, packaging , ,…..

Australia from various years have set a series of strict rules for goods and people in entrance ,
Kanada too , very similar rules ,

are we sure that politicians are "suitable", capable , ready for this "type" of globalization (and the possible consequences)  ?
Or pretend to be "surprised"  ?

are we too many for a planet of this size ?
peace

 

[cyrano]

Has anybody considered the cost to those who will get sick in the USA? If I read this:

https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/1233191792914251776

It might be even more devastating than actually dying from the virus...

One MD over here started using another test. Results show the current test in use is not only very inaccurate, but it's also very expensive. Read: over-priced.

https://twitter.com/ProfHGoossens/status/1234085749487755266

The US CDC initially declined to test the patient who on Feb. 26 become the latest confirmed case in the US, and the first with an unknown origin of infection (raising the concern that there are more cases circulating among the general public that have not been identified).

The patient, who was on a ventilator with a suspected viral infection, was transferred from another hospital to UC Davis Medical Center on Feb. 19. The hospital's request to test for COVID-19 was initially denied by CDC, as the patient did not meet the COVID-19 testing criteria (had not recently traveled to countries with outbreaks or been in contact with someone with the virus). The CDC on Feb. 27 issued new testing rules, for which many more people can now be tested for the coronavirus.

Just 12 of more than 100 public health labs in the U.S. are currently able to test for COVID-19 because of a problem with the test developed by CDC. The agency can now screen only 350-500 samples per day. California Governor Gavin Newsom characterized the number of test kits available in the state as “remarkably inadequate.”

As of Feb. 26, CDC had performed a total of 445 tests. For comparison, the UK, with a population five times smaller than the US, had conducted over 7,000 tests.

Source:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/

 

[cyrano]

Fortunately, scientists in the USA are still alive and kicking:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1233970271318503426.html

It seems a lot of assumptions made by the Trump administration are false. Recent travel to China shouldn't be on the case list at all. There's strong evidence the virus has been active in WA for about six weeks already.

Meanwhile the first death is reported in the USA:
https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/health/news/2020/February/29-covid19.aspx

 

[cyrano]

And what's Trump doing? He censors all communication...

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/who-data-shows-coronavirus-is-containable-us-fails-to-contain/

We alteady knew he's an idiot. He just turned into a very dangerous idiot.

 

[cyrano]

The virus is not the main cause for death. A bacterium from the Prevotella genus is, according to this publication:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339008515_The_2019_Wuhan_outbreak_is_caused_by_the_bacteria_Prevotella_which_is_aided_by_the_coronavirus_possibly_to_adhere_to_epithelial_cells_-_Prevotella_is_present_in_huge_amounts_in_patients_from_both_Chin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevotella

 

[Tubetec]

A friend of mine developed a test kit in use here recently ,
I havent had a chance to speak to him in the last few of weeks .
What were using is based on the work of  a German scientist .
The medical hot shots are shown front/centre in the media dealing with the crisis,
but its the science and lab people do all the real work .

Im baffled by the CDC,
its starting to look like a Basil Faulty style comedy of errors  ,
what the hell are the orders being barked down from up top  :-[

Spreading the disease, Anthrax ,thats a blast from the past

 

[iomegaman]

Reports are coming out now that the primary CDC lab in Atlanta that made the test kits has been contaminated, this has been known by numerous agencies since Thursdays conference call...

Of course everything is fine because its just people being political. nothing to see here.

 

[dogears]

Glad to talk about what the CDC may be doing right or wrong.

WHO health kits had problems. CDC decided to develop their own, which also had problems (apparently). Looks like that was a mistake.

Restricting travel from China seems like a good idea. Probably insufficient.

Truth is, there’s probably nothing that can be done to contain something like this. Travel is too prevalent. From what I’ve read best thing from a public health policy perspective is to delay it, stretch the case load out.

There’s probably a bigger aggregate risk in economic impact than raw health impact.

Believe it or not, the president of the US is probably wholly incapable of stopping something like this. The CDC is a government agency, filled with career government employees. Laying this at the feet of president Trump is as stupid as laying the Swine Flu outbreak and its 4,000 US dead at the feet of President Obama.

 

[r2d2]

……… ,
Has anybody considered the cost to those who will get sick in the USA?
If I read this:

https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/1233191792914251776
…………..

Sorry but :
are the USA  a "civil" nation ?

what difference between American people left to die outside hospitals
because unable to have health insurance
and :
the  people who live ( and die by not access to medical treatment )
in the nations around the world considered poor or underdeveloped  ?

is not the level of humanity the first "indicator" of civilization ?

who comes first ?
the human being or the business ?

if first come only the business ,  is the result evident?


(  ...don't say they didn't know…)
peace

ps:
….is this "event" only an "exercise" ?

 

[Tubetec]

To my untrained eye ,after a casual read through of what Cyrano posted earlier ,it does look like there's some kind of genetic/geographic/cultural pre-disposition to all this . Europeans seem to be less likely to carry the bacteria which does a lot of the damage in the lungs after the Covid virus gets a hold. 

I was going to make a 'blue waffle' joke , but maybe best to spare ourselves the self righteous indignation of the more delicate souls 

 

[dogears]

Americans aren’t left to die outside of hospitals. That’s ignorant.

 

[dogears]

To my untrained eye ,after a casual read through of what Cyrano posted earlier ,it does look like there's some kind of genetic/geographic/cultural pre-disposition to all this . Europeans seem to be less likely to carry the bacteria which does a lot of the damage in the lungs after the Covid virus gets a hold. 

I was going to make a 'blue waffle' joke , but maybe best to spare ourselves the self righteous indignation of the more delicate souls 

I wouldn’t put too much stock in any particular paper. There have been several with pretty wild claims published that were quickly retracted. The publication cycle for COVID19 is rapid now - which is a good and bad thing.

 

[dogears]

I'm trying to picture a bunch of people waiting outside of hospitals dying at the bouncer's feet but it's difficult.

Maybe it was meant that more people die from lack of health insurance than with??.....
not sure how that compares with over burdened or insufficient systems.......

It can be frustrating to have people run to the doctors with a simple cold while I pick up the slack with a couple of Dayquil . But then I pay more in the long run .....
I can't even afford insurance now....or I guess I could if I moved in with my family or gave up some stuff....But then I may not even need insurance.......... Confusing...
Hopefully we'll figure it out

It's just ignorance and propaganda.  Doctors have the right to deny treatment for a few different reasons, but a doctor or a hospital absolutely cannot refuse to treat a person with life-threatening or serious injuries or illnesses - regardless of payment status or whether they have insurance. Also covers age, race, religion, nationality, ethnicity, residence, citizenship, or legal status. They also can't stop treating someone after they've started because of pay, or even transfer that patient to another hospital. They can't even delay treatment while checking if someone can pay.  Private hospitals can deny non-emergency treatment, but public hospitals cannot refuse care. They can't change the level of care. They can't hold your belongings or medical records hostage for payment. They can't withold food during your stay.  And all of this applies to both doctors as individuals and hospitals as entities.  It's been this way in the US for 34 years.  :

 

[dogears]

Sorry for the derail - for those who have been saying this is HIV or a bioweapon or the illuminati thinning the herd etc..

http://virological.org/t/the-proximal-origin-of-sars-cov-2/398

Thus the SARS-CoV-2 spike appears to be the result of selection on human or human-like ACE2 permitting another optimal binding solution to arise. This is strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of genetic engineering.

It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of an existing SARS-related coronavirus. As noted above, the RBD of SARS-CoV-2 is optimized for human ACE2 receptor binding with an efficient binding solution different to that which would have been predicted. Further, if genetic manipulation had been performed, one would expect that one of the several reverse genetic systems available for betacoronaviruses would have been used. However, this is not the case as the genetic data shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone17. Instead, we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in a non-human animal host prior to zoonotic transfer, and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer.

Take all recent publications with a grain of salt, as mentioned.  ;D

 

[dogears]

CDC gets hammered for low number of tests due to problems with their test kit
CDC solution? Stop reporting the number of tests administrated.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html

Haha. What a joke.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Expect a spike in confirmed cases when test kits finally become widely available in US.

JR

 

[Matador]

 

[Script]

Japanese newspaper reported today that a type of steroid for asthma has been successfully administered to three elderly  patients suffering from the virus.

While HIV drugs didn't do much for them (only side-effects), the seniors were much better after the inhalation treatment, which apparently slowed down / reduced their pulmonary inflammations --  able to walk and eat again by themselves.

Interesting...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Japanese newspaper reported today that a type of steroid for asthma has been successfully administered to three elderly  patients suffering from the virus.

that seems like an obvious strategy for people having trouble breathing...

While HIV drugs didn't do much for them (only side-effects), the seniors were much better after the inhalation treatment, which apparently slowed down / reduced their pulmonary inflammations --  able to walk and eat again by themselves.

Interesting...

We will keep learning but good news if we can improve survival rates with existing drugs.

JR

 

[dogears]

Well, the issue with treating this is it appears to cause interstitial viral pneumonia as a primary symptom (showing up as ground glass opacities on CT / xray). The can cause edema around the heart and is probably one of the reasons heart disease is the highest reported comorbidity.

Steroids reduce inflammation by suppressing immune system response. But you also don't want to suppress the immune system so much that the virus or a secondary infection actually kills you. Its a balancing act.

Lots of things being tried now - polymerase inhibitors sort of deny the virus the resources it needs to replicate itself, receptor site binders deny the virus attachment points. These are likely what the HIV antivirals that we're hearing are doing. Then there are some drugs that are used to treat cytokine storms - basically anything that reduces the enzymes which cause inflammation - which no doubt are also being tried.

Had a long chat with my college roommate who is a doc about this last night. Pretty fascinating stuff. Modern medicine is incredible.