Cross talk reducing quad wire cable mod in headphones

[RoadrunnerOZ]

anyone know a thin and flexible Quad cable that could recommend?

I can get quad cable the same standard thickness of normal 2 conductor mic cable, but I would like to get quad cable thinner than that

Mogami Neglex W2893 braid shield is 4.8mm OD not sure if they do thinner
Belden 1804A mini star quad braid shield is 3mm OD
Not sure if you’re keen on foil shield:
Canare L-4E5AT foil shield is 5mm OD
They also do a 3mm version L-4E3AT foil shield 3mm OD

 

[Whoops]

Thanks mate I will check those.

I don’t think if foil shield is a problem or not, at a first glance I would say it’s fine, I just care if the cable is flexible or not. If it’s too stiff when handling or too prone to have memory then it’s an hassle.

Thanks

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Yeah I’ve always found foil to have a tendency for memory but haven’t tried to use the thinner stuff - supposed to be ultra flexible and can be drawn through conduit. It does say designed for fixed installation - I’d be looking at the braid if constantly coiling and uncoiling.

 

[Whoops]

Yeah I’ve always found foil to have a tendency for memory but haven’t tried to use the thinner stuff - supposed to be ultra flexible and can be drawn through conduit. It does say designed for fixed installation

Yes, if it says "designed for fixed installation" then it will be stiffer

- I’d be looking at the braid if constantly coiling and uncoiling.

I think so, I have to look into the Braid options

 

[Whoops]

I was checking my suppliers in EU and I can only get Sommer cable from Thomann.
And then locally I can get Gotham and S2CEB.
The starquad cable from these brands are standard thickness from 6,3mm to 6,8mm

There's a Gotham model with 4,2mm, but I would thinner if possible, around 3mm would be good.

Canare and Mogami are not accessible in EU, or at least easily accessible, unfortunately

The Belden 1804A seems exactly what I need, but it's crazy expensive, it's 7 to 8 euros per meter

 

[Whoops]

It seems there's a thinner 4 conductors Sommer cable, it doesn't say "Starquad" in this case, I don't know if it's the same thing or not...
But it's 3,4mm, and Sommer is easier to get in EU

https://shop.sommercable.com/fr/Cab...ofonkabel-SC-CICADA-4-200-0461.html#tab_media

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Farnell UK have the Belden - the reason it’s expensive is it’s silver plated copper

It seems there's a thinner 4 conductors Sommer cable, it doesn't say "Starquad" in this case, I don't know if it's the same thing or not...
But it's 3,4mm, and Sommer is easier to get in EU

in the listing you posted it says smallest star quad etc although the Belden is 2.94 mm OD

 

[Whoops]

Farnell UK have the Belden - the reason it’s expensive is it’s silver plated copper

I don't need that silver plating, although I like the small diameter.
Well for the price the Sommer option although slightly thicker is much cheaper so I will go for that one,
just need to try to find a shop that sells by the meter.

Thanks mate

 

[Gold]

Yes, if it says "designed for fixed installation" then it will be stiffer

The reasons a foil shield is for fixed installation is that if the cable is flexed it can cause handling noise and if it is over flexed it can bend the foil causing weakness or breaks in the shield.

Cables with stranded shields are usually more flexible than cables with a braided shield.

 

[CJ]

Sony MDR 7505

Ear splitting power:

1 Watt
24 Ohms
0.200 amps
4.89 V-ac
8 ft cable #28
64 ohms/1000 ft
0.5 ohms for 8 ft coil cord
0.2 amps x 0.5 ohms = 100 mv voltage drop
0.1vac/4.8989 vac = 2 percent voltage drop

A little bit of cross talk goes a long way so I bet a good set of ears could hear it, for a little while, because at that level, jus sayin,

Do ears have cross talk? Do the sound waves from one ear drum travel through the skull to the other ear drum?
Where do the wires run from the ear to the brain are they Litz wires?

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Sony MDR 7505

Ear splitting power:

1 Watt
24 Ohms
0.200 amps
4.89 V-ac
8 ft cable #28
64 ohms/1000 ft
0.5 ohms for 8 ft coil cord
0.2 amps x 0.5 ohms = 100 mv voltage drop
0.1vac/4.8989 vac = 2 percent voltage drop

A little bit of cross talk goes a long way so I bet a good set of ears could hear it,

At that sort of level if you had them up full whack there’s likely to be a fair bit of crosstalk - there’s likely to be a hearing aid on the near horizon as well

 

[CJ]

Well I'll be...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...ng via bone,ability to utilize binaural cues.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5746457/

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

The reasons a foil shield is for fixed installation is that if the cable is flexed it can cause handling noise and if it is over flexed it can bend the foil causing weakness or breaks in the shield.

Cables with stranded shields are usually more flexible than cables with a braided shield.

Had lots of trouble when people made stage boxes with foil shield multicore - sounded like wind in the trees!
Trouble with the stranded is that the strands can separate from each other leaving gaps in the shield - they (for some brands) disconnect from the sheath plastic after repeated bending and allow the strands to find the shortest path round a bend. The braid tightens across the back of a bend by contrast - little separation.

 

[CJ]

Looks like hi z Grado bones with appropriate amp will cut down on cross talk

(Less current = less voltage drop)

Note that cross talk effect will be greater when the l an r signals vary greatly. Like early Beatles recordings.

 

[Gold]

A foil shield prov

Had lots of trouble when people made stage boxes with foil shield multicore - sounded like wind in the trees!
Trouble with the stranded is that the strands can separate from each other leaving gaps in the shield - they (for some brands) disconnect from the sheath plastic after repeated bending and allow the strands to find the shortest path round a bend. The braid tightens across the back of a bend by contrast - little separation.

There is no free lunch. A foil shield provides 100% coverage so is great for fixed instillations. Braided shield has very good coverage even when flexed but won’t be as flexible as a stranded shield.

 

[MagnetoSound]

Agree on foil shield not a great idea, as over time the foil will crack, giving ‘bendy’ areas in the cable, relative to the rest of it’s length.

But it’s for headphones. What do you need a shield for?

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Agree on foil shield not a great idea, as over time the foil will crack, giving ‘bendy’ areas in the cable, relative to the rest of it’s length.

But it’s for headphones. What do you need a shield for?

I think this was a cables in general question requiring a thin star quad. However - there is an advantage to shielded cable in headphone cables to prevent unwanted transmission to things like guitar and bass pickups and long lengths of unshielded cable wandering across unbalanced guitar leads, close proximity to a dynamic mic voice coil etc in a studio environment. Normal headphones use 2 core + shield anyway and the shield is grounded at the headphone amplifier. Can’t recall seeing headphones without shielded cable, domestic or professional.

 

[MagnetoSound]

I’m pretty sure the curly cables on my DT250s are just 4-wires.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

It would appear we rely on phase/time difference in natural bone conduction from acoustic sources to complete the L-R perception in addition to the normal direct acoustic perception. So we have our own built-in crosstalk system that if shorted L>R + R>L defeats the perceived stereo signal, therefore whereas sufficient crosstalk in cables can affect the stereo width through bone and air acoustic perception - the net effect being narrower image as both bone and acoustic are affected the same - however direct bone conduction from loud headphones, creating mono from bone (and still having stereo from acoustic), the sum of the two I imagine would be far more of a stereo defeat/confusion than you could ever get from cable crosstalk.
Conclusion: loud headphones can give you a headache unless listening in mono?

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

I’m pretty sure the curly cables on my DT250s are just 4-wires.

They use a TRS plug - 3 contacts to either 4 wires or 2 wires plus shield. From memory the DT770 have 2 core and shield terminating at the left capsule - I have a couple of pairs I might pull one apart for a look inside. Hard to say with moulded cables.