Deaths from climate change

[JohnRoberts]

I've been to beaches in FL, SC, NC, ME, CA, OR over my 56 trips around the sun and haven't seen any significant sea level change. Obviously people like Obama and Zuckerberg aren't worried or they wouldn't have spent tens of millions on seaside mansions/properties.

I don't know if this is the canary in the coal mine, or just an artifact of poor original urban planning, but Miami beach has a road raising project to prevent flooding at high tide. link about street flooding miami beach This is not without controversy since road work diverts flooding water runoff.

I believe it was JR who used to say "watch their feet not their lips" or something to that effect.

Old basketball axiom... "watch their feet not their head", so they don't fake you out on defense with a head fake. Ex President Obama considered himself a ball player. I rewrote it to be watch what he does, not what he says, because he made good speeches.

I'm old enough to remember "the next ice age is beginning" all over news, magazines, and books. It isn't clear that humans actually understand what's going on, but it does seem that our outsized hubris makes us believe various theories we've made up from incomplete data and knowledge.

The next ice age is coming, but i can't tell you exactly when.

Again rising temperature or ocean level is an objective fact... the real question is what do we do in response. I am pretty sure hobbling the fossil fuel industry is not the optimal solution. The world needs the wealth from inexpensive energy to adapt.

JR

 

[scott2000]

Again rising temperature or ocean level is an objective fact... the real question is what do we do in response. I am pretty sure hobbling the fossil fuel industry is not the optimal solution.

Maybe one day they'll have electric landmovers to push all that beach sand around. Those things are impressive. Guys were literally out in the ocean with water covering the tracks as they pushed more sand up towards the houses.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Maybe one day they'll have electric landmovers to push all that beach sand around. Those things are impressive. Guys were literally out in the ocean with water covering the tracks as they pushed more sand up towards the houses.

Beach erosion mitigation is not a simple sea level issue but weather (storm surge)/ocean currents flow related.

I am not very sympathetic to government subsidized beach house (flooding) insurance, but legislators are generous with OPM. FL legislators these days are focussed on condos that fall down in the middle of the night, but FL is a hurricane magnet.

JR

 

[cyrano]

How many lakes have dried up in the USA?

Or didn't you notice?

 

[JohnRoberts]

How many lakes have dried up in the USA?

Or didn't you notice?

Trying to imagine evidence of some end coming...?

Don't be distracted by hypothetical "signals".
====

A thoughtful inspection of the CO2 warming mechanism in our atmosphere reveals that this is very slow changing long term cumulative phenomenon. If we were to cut all carbon use to zero today (which is clearly impossible) the globe would continue warming for decades (or longer?) because of all the CO2 in circulation.

If needed we could actively cool the globe, but that would be unwise right now with our only rudimentary understanding of climate systems, and unintended side effects. We need to study and learn more. Meanwhile technology will continue to invent new better ways to clean up our energy supply.

To provide a better outcome than the trajectory we are on now requires a combination of more climate research, and smarter mitigation/adaption strategies. There are intelligent things we can do to slow warming without killing the golden goose ( inexpensive energy) that we need to create all the wealth needed to pay for adaption. Wealthy cities like Miami beach can afford to raise their street levels while many poor regions cannot. Rather than sending solar panels and windmills to poor 3rd world countries maybe help them adapt to the actual changes more cost effectively.

IMO so much of the government climate change policy is a feel good distraction while they are picking our pockets to gain control over even more of the private sector. "Be very afraid", "climate emergency", yadda yadda....

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

How many lakes have dried up in the USA?

Or didn't you notice?

Those are artificial reservoirs for water storage and/or hydro power generation. How many people have moved into deserts (Phoenix, Las Vegas, SLC, etc.) or very arid areas (Los Angeles, Denver, etc.) and want to water their lawns, fill their pools, wash their clothes, flush their toilets, run their AC, and charge their Teslas? This has little to do with climate and much to do with population growth where important resources aren't present.

 

[cyrano]

Trying to imagine evidence of some end coming...?

Don't be distracted by hypothetical "signals".
====

A thoughtful inspection of the CO2 warming mechanism in our atmosphere reveals that this is very slow changing long term cumulative phenomenon.

JR

Isn't that enough?

CO2 levels haven't been this high since millions of years. That's one thing, but they're still climbing. Add a little help from various carbohydrates and you have a problem. Maybe in 50 years, maybe in 500. Does it matter?

Again, isn't that enough?

This is not a potentially hypothetical signal, John. Water sources allover the world are diminishing. Including lakes. Sure, not all of the hundreds of lakes in the USA dried up because of global warming. But it's the same in most countries. Our local groundwater level is 55 m below what it was two centuries ago. I mean, it takes some effort to not "see" this happening.

Meanwhile, the oceans are massively polluted with plastics and other junk. Krill numbers have never been so low. You know what that means...

I just wonder which species will survive.

 

[cyrano]

Those are artificial reservoirs for water storage and/or hydro power generation. How many people have moved into deserts (Phoenix, Las Vegas, SLC, etc.) or very arid areas (Los Angeles, Denver, etc.) and want to water their lawns, fill their pools, wash their clothes, flush their toilets, run their AC, and charge their Teslas? This has little to do with climate and much to do with population growth where important resources aren't present.

Even in relatively unpopulated areas like Alaska, fi, lakes have dried up. In fact, over 50.000 lakes have vanished in the last century in Alaska. This count doesn't include reservoirs, just natural lakes.

Oh, and BTW, the same goes for Siberia, or Mongolia, or Africa...

And the list of man built reservoirs that never get operational for the lack of water is also getting long. I'll never forget the Spanish valley where all villages were empty. It was the year the winter olympics were held in the Andalusian mountains. No snow. Nor water in the reservoir...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Isn't that enough?

no

CO2 levels haven't been this high since millions of years. That's one thing, but they're still climbing. Add a little help from various carbohydrates and you have a problem. Maybe in 50 years, maybe in 500. Does it matter?

again to REPEAT MYSELF, you cut cut carbon emissions to zero and the temperature would continue climbing... You are stuck on the fast thinking first variable...

Again, isn't that enough?

no

This is not a potentially hypothetical signal, John. Water sources allover the world are diminishing. Including lakes. Sure, not all of the hundreds of lakes in the USA dried up because of global warming.

what is your proof for the conclusion that climate change is the cause? This is sloppy thinking, not scientific. If anything it sounds like a clever argument to win over low information voters.

But it's the same in most countries. Our local groundwater level is 55 m below what it was two centuries ago. I mean, it takes some effort to not "see" this happening.

ground water has been drawn down for farming and other industrial uses... clean water is also important and worth conserving, but not blamed on climate change.

Meanwhile, the oceans are massively polluted with plastics and other junk. Krill numbers have never been so low. You know what that means...

I expect the oceans would be cleaning up a little with covid shutting down all the cruise ships.

I just wonder which species will survive.

cockroaches for sure... Not people who ignore science, and are easily swayed by political screeds.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

If we were to cut all carbon use to zero today (which is clearly impossible) the globe would continue warming for decades (or longer?) because of all the CO2 in circulation.

Again rising temperature or ocean level is an objective fact... the real question is what do we do in response.

I believe the answer is "we're already fucked."

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Even in relatively unpopulated areas like Alaska, fi, lakes have dried up. In fact, over 50.000 lakes have vanished in the last century in Alaska. This count doesn't include reservoirs, just natural lakes.

Oh, and BTW, the same goes for Siberia, or Mongolia, or Africa...

And the list of man built reservoirs that never get operational for the lack of water is also getting long. I'll never forget the Spanish valley where all villages were empty. It was the year the winter olympics were held in the Andalusian mountains. No snow. Nor water in the reservoir...

Do you believe climate, environment, and geology are static or time-varying processes? Humans have been known to make poor decisions and investments. That will no doubt continue. Recently some humans decided not to build new nuclear plants which take roughly a decade to design, plan, construct, and commission. Dams have failed, cities flooded. Life goes on.

 

[Matador]

I believe the answer is "we're already fucked."

Not if we drill baby, drill!

 

[crazydoc]

Yup. Reminds me of the theory that the reason we've found no intelligent life in our search (SETI), is that when a civilization becomes technologically advanced, it has the capability to destroy itself, which it does.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

How have Al Gore's alarmist predictions panned out?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Yup. Reminds me of the theory that the reason we've found no intelligent life in our search (SETI), is that when a civilization becomes technologically advanced, it has the capability to destroy itself, which it does.

Or they're simply not interested in interacting with primitives unless they have interesting resources, perhaps. Or they're ultra-moral and have and enforce a "prime directive," or any number of other anthropomorphic theories...

 

[JohnRoberts]

I remain optimistic that the human race will survive and rise above this political dog and pony party.... A recent poll found that 1% of the respondents felt that climate change was the most important issue.

There is a lot we can do, but we must act smartly.... We need inexpensive energy to adapt to the real world around us.

JR

 

[cyrano]

again to REPEAT MYSELF, you cut cut carbon emissions to zero and the temperature would continue climbing... You are stuck on the fast thinking first variable...

While that may very well be true, it's the most important issue. And that's not from choosing the first likely variable, but from analysing and discussing numbers with all those interested.

I'm starting to find your ever returning "you're wrong because you jump to conclusions" mildly irritating, maybe even insulting. As if you're the only one who reads books.

what is your proof for the conclusion that climate change is the cause? This is sloppy thinking, not scientific. If anything it sounds like a clever argument to win over low information voters.

I don't care what it sounds like. Hardly relevant, really, as there are no voters to win over here.

The proof is there, John. You just need to be willing to find it. A lot of these lakes are gone because there simply is less and less rainfall in large areas while a few areas are flooded. That's just extreme weather, not even climate, but it's happening.

ground water has been drawn down for farming and other industrial uses... clean water is also important and worth conserving, but not blamed on climate change.

Then what do you blame it on?

I expect the oceans would be cleaning up a little with covid shutting down all the cruise ships.

Seems you know very little about the oceans and care even less....

cockroaches for sure... Not people who ignore science, and are easily swayed by political screeds.

JR

A fine example of cockroaches' evolution has been observed very recently in Germany: one mutation no longer favors sugar as food. A problem for exterminators, as all pesticides for roaches are sweet. These no longer work for the mutated ones.

 

[JohnRoberts]

While that may very well be true, it's the most important issue. And that's not from choosing the first likely variable, but from analysing and discussing numbers with all those interested.

we should all be interested and sensible...

I'm starting to find your ever returning "you're wrong because you jump to conclusions" mildly irritating, maybe even insulting. As if you're the only one who reads books.

but I did not say that... The Koonin book points out multiple flawed conclusions (jumped to) by climate scientists. I see flawed conclusions repeated almost daily in mainstream news, even from reading the WSJ newspaper. I am old enough to remember when the WSJ was more STEM accurate.

I don't care what it sounds like. Hardly relevant, really, as there are no voters to win over here.

you guys don't vote on climate change policies? Now maybe that is the news.

The proof is there, John. You just need to be willing to find it. A lot of these lakes are gone because there simply is less and less rainfall in large areas while a few areas are flooded. That's just extreme weather, not even climate, but it's happening.

the world has always suffered from droughts and floods. Where does the water go?

Water vapor is actually considered a greenhouse gas, while it isn't exactly a gas. Climate science is complex.

Then what do you blame it on?

It is human nature to extrapolate from thin evidence... that's where all the conspiracy theories come from.

Seems you know very little about the oceans and care even less....

Back in the 60s while I was in HS I worked in a machine shop, over summer vacation supporting Columbia University's oceanographic research vessels. My mother got a job running their travel department after my father died. One older brother (RIP) did a tour on one of the ships (they had two). I was actually hired to to go to sea years later, but this was during the Viet Nam conflict, so they decided to check with my draft board before flying me out to meet the boat. My draft board, had different ideas for me that involved Ft Dix, NJ, Ft Riley KS, and even drinking some biers while on NATO maneuvers in Bavaria. So I have been paying attention to our oceans for over half a century.

A fine example of cockroaches' evolution has been observed very recently in Germany: one mutation no longer favors sugar as food. A problem for exterminators, as all pesticides for roaches are sweet. These no longer work for the mutated ones.

When I lived up north we had German cockroaches... down here in the deep south we have Palmetto bugs, Cockroaches that would spank German cockroaches.

JR

 

[57sputnik]

Be ready to grow your own.


Come and take it.


I am. Klaus' fancy Klingon outfit doesn't impress me.

Agree 100%.

 

[cyrano]

I wouldn't call being in the military an excellent position to observe the oceans, John. Have you really talked to some of the marine biologists from Columbia?

Science is constantly evolving. Mankind learns by making mistakes and figuring these out, eventually. It's rather easy to concentrate on the mistakes and use that to undermine everything.

Recently, a renowned cancer research institute has been caught doin' naughty things. Does that mean all cancer research is tainted? Or maybe all non-profits are dodgy?

It's a bit too easy to be negative. Is there anything positive left? When left is right and right is wrong?