Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz Report

[Recording Engineer]

So apparently the Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz Report is coming soon and it’s supposed to be regarding the origins of the FBI investigation of Trump’s campaign’s engagements with Russia and to make sure the FBI agents investigated legally.

I’m confused. One would hope this is business as usual! If so, what’s all the hoopla, in public, especially prior to any findings? If not, something is seriously wrong at the core!

 

[iomegaman]

So apparently the Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz Report is coming soon and it’s supposed to be regarding the origins of the FBI investigation of Trump’s campaign’s engagements with Russia and to make sure the FBI agents investigated legally.

I’m confused. One would hope this is business as usual! If so, what’s all the hoopla, in public, especially prior to any findings? If not, something is seriously wrong at the core!

Nothing burger...outrage has been normalized this will barely make a blip except as a talking point for one or two minutes of cable news...

As I understand it, this is an investigation into the FISA process regarding Carter Page...whom GOP talking heads are defending saying that Obama era FBI folks illegally wire-tapped trying to take him down...you have to get to some of the back story to see why this is important...

If you track the primary GOP cover team for Trump you will find one particular thread that they are always trying to pull at...the Steele Dossier...the problem is that thread was made of carbon fibre and so far has refused to unravel the main thesis of Steels report (That Russia has Komprankat on Trump)...but they are ALWAYS trying to discredit that report...ALWAYS.

Carter Pages name came up in that report, so as per denial protocol the GOP is trying to discredit ANY investigation into Page because they hope to create a talking point to discredit Steeles report...problem is the Steele Dossier functed a bit like the current whistle-blower...pretty much the majority of the info Steele provided was second sourced in other departments and by other Intelligence agencies...and in this case the FBI was ALREADY investigating Page...as far as the Warrants...here's the facts...

FOUR different Judges, (all republican appointees) signed off on these investigation requests by the FBI...the idea that there was wrong-doing in the FISA requests is basically a talking point of Joseph diGenova...(who is currently the lawyer defending Dmitry Firtash who is a well known Russian/Ukrainian Gas/oil Billionaire gangster)...

The fact that diGenova has been able to influence the DOJ to open an investigation into Page should be very troubling to anyone who is paying attention...the guy is nuts and defends gangsters...it would be the same concern if Al Capones lawyers were able to accuse Elliot Ness of child molesting and get an investigation going...

 

[JohnRoberts]

As usual opinions vary and investigations into political shenanigans are prime targets for spin.

The IG Horowitz investigation does not have grand jury authority or authorization while the  attorney general division it was turned in too, does. His report was finished in Sept(?) and is undergoing an internal classification review.

At the same time US Attorney John Durham's probe into the origins of the Russian investigation has reportedly shifted to a criminal investigation (because of evidence uncovered), expanding their ability to call witnesses, impanel a grand jury and file criminal charges.

As I have said before, be patient. These investigations are both moving forward. 

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

Ok, this is making more sense... I did not realize two different investigations of the origins of the Russia investigation was happening. So far, this one definitely seems nothing more than a political talking-point angle (possibly both), but I’m open-minded and patient enough (to a fault probably) to say we’ll see, eventually.

These investigations into the investigation very well may reveal some bad practices or possibly even criminal activity from some individuals, which is why I would hope these kinds of investigations are business as usual! If not, that’s where the uproar should be! But to embrace these conspiracy-theories at all from the extreme-left, which Trump regurgitates over and over again as a political strategy, just isn’t logical to me. I don’t understand how anyone can really be putting their eggs in that basket, but there seems to be plenty of them.

*Edit: Meant to say extreme-right obviously ... But that goes for the extreme-left too in other instances, for the other side of the coin.

 

[iomegaman]

As usual opinions vary and investigations into political shenanigans are prime targets for spin.

The IG Horowitz investigation does not have grand jury authority or authorization while the  attorney general division it was turned in too, does. His report was finished in Sept(?) and is undergoing an internal classification review.

At the same time US Attorney John Durham's probe into the origins of the Russian investigation has reportedly shifted to a criminal investigation (because of evidence uncovered), expanding their ability to call witnesses, impanel a grand jury and file criminal charges.

As I have said before, be patient. These investigations are both moving forward. 

JR

"(Because of evidence uncovered)"...

Do you have a source for this assertion?  I have so far been unable to verify the reason the case went "criminal" except that it empowers Durham to convene a grand jury and subpoena witnesses on a different level...the only thing I can find is Barrs own conclusion that he suggest the facts and testimony are off a bit...

Personally I wish Barr was ourAG instead of Trumps lap dog...while he might not have agreed to do a pony show saying Trumps call was "perfect" he still runs on a very short religious leash...which I find troubling for the AG of the USA...

 

[JohnRoberts]

"(Because of evidence uncovered)"...

Do you have a source for this assertion?  I have so far been unable to verify the reason the case went "criminal" except that it empowers Durham to convene a grand jury and subpoena witnesses on a different level...the only thing I can find is Barrs own conclusion that he suggest the facts and testimony are off a bit...

Personally I wish Barr was ourAG instead of Trumps lap dog...while he might not have agreed to do a pony show saying Trumps call was "perfect" he still runs on a very short religious leash...which I find troubling for the AG of the USA...

I do not have details but Barr and Durham's visited Italy in Sept to meet with Italian intelligence officials. This visit was reported in the news. I think he has also met with British intelligence on a similar fact finding mission.

Barr's DOJ has not been as leaky as we have become accustomed from the swamp.

I suspect you can find the same newspaper articles I just did with a quick search.  The guardian was not as dismissive as some others
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/02/us-attorney-general-william-barr-met-italian-officials-to-discuss-russiagate

I would not be surprised if the subject of that Italian visit becomes harder to locate in the future.  :

JR 

 

[iomegaman]

I do not have details but Barr and Durham's visited Italy in Sept to meet with Italian intelligence officials. This visit was reported in the news. I think he has also met with British intelligence on a similar fact finding mission.

Barr's DOJ has not been as leaky as we have become accustomed from the swamp.

I suspect you can find the same newspaper articles I just did with a quick search.  The guardian was not as dismissive as some others
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/02/us-attorney-general-william-barr-met-italian-officials-to-discuss-russiagate

I would not be surprised if the subject of that Italian visit becomes harder to locate in the future.  :

JR

Occam's razor here...we know and have known for a very long time that Russia is basically run by former GRU and mafia Oligarchs...this is really not even debatable...current Russia is not a democratic society anymore than the Corleone crime family was...we also know that Carter Page was under investigation as far back as 2013 for being a target of Russian interference...and we have very congruent evidence that there were a LOT of Russian influence peddlers trying to work with the Trump campaign...

I don't see how anyone with any kind of common sense can deny these things...so why is it that people are seriously questioning the 2-16 Russian election meddling, that has been proven by our own as well as many foreign intelligence services?

Why is William Barr trying to disprove that Russia interfered in our election?

Every page I read see's Barr looking to investigate the ORIGINS of an investigation that PROVED Russia interfered...I mean what exactly is he after here? Mueller reported unequivocally that Russia interfered and there are a butt load of indictments and guilty pleas as well as a lot of money made off of his investigation...hell a lot of Trumps campaign staff has plead to felonies or better from Mueller's work...

If we look at the simplest of explanations possible, it is this: Barr is chasing Donald Trumps conspiracy theories about a deep state trying to ruin his presidency...mainly because it prolongs and possibly secures his job position...if Trump is impeached, Barr is next...so the best bet is to chase down outlandish theories and dress them up as serious conspiracies involving multiple nations and multiple intelligence agencies all working together to make sure that Hillary is defeated and then able to ruin Trumps presidency...

What other possibility are we supposed to believe? Page confessed, many others investigated ended up confessing or going to jail...Flynn and gates and Stone are next...but Barr seems intent on proving that the investigation was started wrong or mishandled or what?

Is he trying to exonerate Carter Page? Padoppolous? Stone? Flynn? What is the end game here except to prove some vast conspiracy that frankly the guilty verdicts already disprove?

 

[bluebird]

mic drop...

 

[Matador]

Every page I read see's Barr looking to investigate the ORIGINS of an investigation that PROVED Russia interfered...I mean what exactly is he after here?

It's a well-known legal theory that if you dial 911 to report a murder, and the cops show up and 5 people there say, 'Yeah, that guy shot the victim!"...if the person who dialed 911 doesn't testify, then the case gets thrown out, because why else would the cops go to the scene of the crime in the first place?

It indeed seems odd:  what is Barr going to say?  That Obama abused his presidental powers to request a foreign government into investigating his political rivals?  Seems like an odd argument to make, especially now.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Occam's razor here...we know and have known for a very long time that Russia is basically run by former GRU and mafia Oligarchs...this is really not even debatable...current Russia is not a democratic society anymore than the Corleone crime family was...we also know that Carter Page was under investigation as far back as 2013 for being a target of Russian interference...and we have very congruent evidence that there were a LOT of Russian influence peddlers trying to work with the Trump campaign...

I don't see how anyone with any kind of common sense can deny these things...so why is it that people are seriously questioning the 2-16 Russian election meddling, that has been proven by our own as well as many foreign intelligence services?

Why is William Barr trying to disprove that Russia interfered in our election?

who says that? Of course the russian's interfered...  They are still interfering (or trying to).

Every page I read see's Barr looking to investigate the ORIGINS of an investigation that PROVED Russia interfered...I mean what exactly is he after here? Mueller reported unequivocally that Russia interfered and there are a butt load of indictments and guilty pleas as well as a lot of money made off of his investigation...hell a lot of Trumps campaign staff has plead to felonies or better from Mueller's work...

That russians are all over this is a given.

If we look at the simplest of explanations possible, it is this: Barr is chasing Donald Trumps conspiracy theories about a deep state trying to ruin his presidency...mainly because it prolongs and possibly secures his job position...if Trump is impeached, Barr is next...so the best bet is to chase down outlandish theories and dress them up as serious conspiracies involving multiple nations and multiple intelligence agencies all working together to make sure that Hillary is defeated and then able to ruin Trumps presidency...

What other possibility are we supposed to believe? Page confessed, many others investigated ended up confessing or going to jail...Flynn and gates and Stone are next...but Barr seems intent on proving that the investigation was started wrong or mishandled or what?

Is he trying to exonerate Carter Page? Padoppolous? Stone? Flynn? What is the end game here except to prove some vast conspiracy that frankly the guilty verdicts already disprove?

Be patient this will become clear in time... or not. 

The question IMO is who else besides the russians were up to political funny business and dirty tricks?

I'd rather not speculate too much when the investigations are close to winding up.

JR

PS: Never drop a good mic... :

 

[iomegaman]

who says that? Of course the russian's interfered...  They are still interfering (or trying to). That russians are all over this is a given. Be patient this will become clear in time... or not. 

The question IMO is who else besides the russians were up to political funny business and dirty tricks?

I'd rather not speculate too much when the investigations are close to winding up.

JR

PS: Never drop a good mic... :

But you will speculate that the investigation is "close to winding up"...? :

Here's my position, as a general rule I give people the benefit of the doubt, and when in specific points of view there is a clear difference I like to try and get under the thought process to determine what it is I might be missing...but what I am finding more and more of is this idea that "distance and delay" connected to MY patience will produce results that will provide REASONABLE return of expectation...

When it comes to things that require me to have faith, I have become somewhat jaded...I was raised as a preachers kid, spent 50 years deeply involved in right wing conservative religion and its political arm...I was fully supportive of the "Moral Majority" and folks like Franklin Graham and even Paula White...but then I went through sort of an exile...which led me to begin serious questioning of the right wing approach to life in general...for the majority of my long time friends the entire political defense of Trump comes down to abortion and judges...(which is a subject I will not wander into here)...and I get the devotion, I understand it full well...but I no longer support ideas that require me to ignore plain evidence...I no longer believe in people who have "Almost seen bigfoot"....

To suggest I be patient with a conspiracy theory feels like all the promises I was dangled for 50 years, it has the same exact mental tension of "distance and delay" that the preachers offer...it carries the same kind of Utopian promise of justice behind the curtain of my patience...if I will just "wait the course and hold my faith" I will see the truth...

People keep talking about a "deep state" all the while ignoring a businessman with a lifetime history of working for the mob and money laundering...I say the simplest solution is staring us in our faces...and it coincides with the fact that Jay Sekulow has pushed to have Trumps tax returns turned over to a LEGITIMATE congressional inquiry up to the SCOTUS hoping a stacked court will deny the release...as Sandburg once said:

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”

And now we can add: If pounding the table and yelling like hell don't work, start an investigation into the investigators...

What happens when the report is released (only slightly redacted) and there is no real evidence of wrongdoing?

At what point are we expected to drop conspiracy theories and accept the simplest solution that Trump is owned by the Russian mafia?

All I can say is this:

IF Trump was NOT compromised he should have no issue releasing his tax records, he would not need Barr to investigate the reason behind the FBI investigation and he would not need to send Rudy to get the Ukraine to investigate the Biden thing, he should be able to play fair and transparent like he promised he would...as it is...he want's us to keep trusting him, but at this point he sounds just like Paula White and her promises of Gods blessing me if I send HER my money.


P.S. I think people are ignoring a REAL possibility here: IF as I currently believe, Trump is deeply compromised by Putin, there is a VAST amount of damage he could be doing to our Republic THIS VERY MINUTE...and it would look EXACTLY like it looks from this surface view...he would be supportive of ALL of Putins projects, like destroying the UN, getting NATO and others out of Syrias way,  and undermining Ukraine and her resistance to Putins war against her independence...frankly Trump would do EXACTLY what he has been doing since day one IF he was fully compromised...

 

[Recording Engineer]

The question IMO is who else besides the russians were up to political funny business and dirty tricks?

PS: Never drop a good mic... :

Is that what it’s about? Who else is playing dirty like Trump? Is this still nothing more than a “look, everyone does it” defense strategy? Good luck on that if it is! Or is it “everyone else is dirty but Trump isn’t” political strategy? If it is, under which rock does anyone have their head?

PS: Then hopefully it’s an SM58!

 

[iomegaman]

Washington Post just released an article with THIS headline:

"Justice Dept. watchdog won’t let witnesses give written feedback on report about FBI’s Russia probe, sparking fears of inaccuracy"...

This is actually a strange protocol disruption...the IG called witnesses to review  the report, witnesses whose testimony are part of the report...and told them they were not allowed to make any WRITTEN comments...in other words the IG eliminated a paper trail to disclose discrepancies between the report that is released and the actual witnesses involved...

Now explain to me why the AG would NOT want any evidence that the report paints a different picture than the one that involves the actual people who witnessed to it...????

 

[iomegaman]

Oddly enough, now that WashPost printed the article the IG's office has changed its posture and will now allow witnesses to write responses...they say they "clarified" that they can now write out responses

 

[JohnRoberts]

I can wait until these investigations run their course and more information gets released.

JR

PS: Its OK to drop your own mics....

 

[iomegaman]

IG report seems to indicate nothing untoward in the investigation process...still waiting for that proverbial "shoe to drop" with all the QAnon 4 chan/and etc...claims about an improper investigation....

 

[JohnRoberts]

IG report seems to indicate nothing untoward in the investigation process...still waiting for that proverbial "shoe to drop" with all the QAnon 4 chan/and etc...claims about an improper investigation....

I just looked on the Oversight.gov website and don't see that report. I only see one about Comey that was published ,months ago (8/29/2019).

Do you have a link to the text of the report?

JR

 

[iomegaman]

I just looked on the Oversight.gov website and don't see that report. I only see one about Comey that was published ,months ago (8/29/2019).

Do you have a link to the text of the report?

JR

Haven't seen the actual report but the NYT article suggests its a nothingburger...

Twitter talking about it behind paywall

 

[pucho812]

Haven't seen the actual report but the NYT article suggests its a nothingburger...

Twitter talking about it behind paywall

must be true it's in the NYT and they are never wrong ;D

 

[iomegaman]

must be true it's in the NYT and they are never wrong ;D

None of them are ALWAYS right. Not.One.

You have to play the averages...thats what gets people off track, forgetting that ALL journalism outlets are compromised by the need to make a profit...it's very easy to get comfortable with a source and then months later realise that not everything you have learned is accurate...

Mix it up a bit, read Drudge right next to Slate, abide Glenn Beck with Trevor Noah...watch CNN and flip to Fox...Rachel Maddow and Tucker...then filter out the emotional content.

Use a very wide Q and cut ALL emotional content by at least 60 dB...

Then average everything out.