Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz Report

[JohnRoberts]

In a very rare public statement from the chief judge of the secretive FISA court, she issued a four page order to the FBI requiring them to show how they will insure that future FISA warrant requests can be trusted to be accurate.

Apparently the IG report documenting multiple errors was not a "nothing-burger" to the FISA court. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/guid/4B95200E-214D-11EA-977E-488C59F73535
https://nypost.com/2019/12/17/fisa-court-rips-fbi-over-lack-of-candor-in-trump-campaign-eavesdropping/

nbc put up a story but took it down already.

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

I’m not sure, but I’d guess the nothing burger comment was in regards to conspiracy theories Trumps endlessly spews about the FBI and the amazing amount of other deep state players having it out for him, as if to justify his actions, but really probably simply feeds his most demented ego.

I would certainly hope no one would be against making sure protocol and the law have been followed, be it in the FISA Court or anywhere or anything else. I most definitely am not! Again, is there not some standard oversight here? If not, that’s exactly where the outrage should be! Maybe this report is part of the oversight. I keep saying, I’m all for it!

Yes, we patiently wait for the completion of this next investigation, which has reportedly turned criminal, but we honestly have no idea against which team. Maybe it’s not against either and just some not all that known rogue idiot(s). Any which way, I’m all for it! It’s the system working! But if anyone is hoping for some big conspiracy reveal against either side, you’re likely to be disappointed, just as you have been, over and over again, but somehow, always bank on the next one.

Actual indictments and convictions on either side, along with the rogue idiots is where I put my eggs and really is what’s most certain to me!

 

[Recording Engineer]

By the way, the lack of indictment and conviction really doesn’t have anything to with one being innocent either... One just might be that good at the game or at the very least, the chips may have just happened to land in one’s favor, but most of the time, anybody with sensibilities knows there’s no chance in hell they’re innocent.

 

[iomegaman]

Exactly, my "nothing burger" comment included the idea that there was some protocol discrepancies based upon the idea that ANY FISA or warrant application is very complex and requires massive amounts of crossing your T's and dotting your I's...

My oldest child is a District Attorney in the liberal state of California and she is one of only three people in her entire jurisdiction allowed to write wire-taps...the other two being the Head DA and his deputy...the reason she is allowed to write them is because she is incredibly accurate and makes sure to narrow the request to a minimum of personal invasion, since she has written arguments (prior to being a DA) that have been followed in the 9yh Circuit Court of Appeals regarding surveillance (she helped file a motion that got tracking devices  thrown out of a case)...

The process of getting a FISA or any kind of wiretap/surveillance is not just "Fill out form Surveil and submit to Judge", it is a very complex and stringent process...privacy laws come into play here, even with criminal activity...and NO judge is going to issue any kind of surveillance warrant based on flimsy data or lack of evidence...reason being is they can get disbarred for sloppy approval.

My point is this, the entire IG report went through the FBI process with a fine tooth comb and yes found a few places where the T's were not crossed exactly as per the guidelines, but the major noise (That John Roberts has maintained we should wait for) was that there was SERIOUS spying going on based on political motivations...NOTHING OF THE SORT HAPPENED.

There was no deep state left over from Obama spying on Trump,, quite the opposite in fact...

The nothing burger comment is aimed directly at the lack of political bias in the FISA process, there is no evidence of a deep state here...none.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I’m not sure, but I’d guess the nothing burger comment was in regards to conspiracy theories Trumps endlessly spews about the FBI and the amazing amount of other deep state players having it out for him, as if to justify his actions, but really probably simply feeds his most demented ego.

I would certainly hope no one would be against making sure protocol and the law have been followed, be it in the FISA Court or anywhere or anything else. I most definitely am not! Again, is there not some standard oversight here? If not, that’s exactly where the outrage should be! Maybe this report is part of the oversight. I keep saying, I’m all for it!

Yes, we patiently wait for the completion of this next investigation, which has reportedly turned criminal, but we honestly have no idea against which team. Maybe it’s not against either and just some not all that known rogue idiot(s). Any which way, I’m all for it! It’s the system working! But if anyone is hoping for some big conspiracy reveal against either side, you’re likely to be disappointed, just as you have been, over and over again, but somehow, always bank on the next one.

Actual indictments and convictions on either side, along with the rogue idiots is where I put my eggs and really is what’s most certain to me!

I dislike having to explain my obscure references but here I go again...

The "nothing burger" comment was mentioned at least once IN THIS THREAD here https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=73736.msg933592#msg933592  to dismiss the IG report.

Such talking points are emotional appeals meant to replace rational inspection.

I responded using the same language to make a point. Please try to follow along. 

The FISA court judges apparently take the report more seriously than the political partisans.

At the very highest level of government people rarely get jail time for even serious transgressions that we mere citizens get hard time for (they usually retire with a fat pension instead). Recall that Martha Stewart got hard time for fibbing to federal investigators. These high level political types can't open their mouth without bending the truth (no doubt both parties).

Yes, the Durham investigation has already telegraphed the likelihood of criminal indictments, I would almost be willing to bet which side would be at risk of doing time in the gray bar hotel.  But I try not to make predictions about any future that hasn't happened yet (I am wrong too often). I can wait.. at my age time is flying by. 

JR

PS: . I said I was waiting for the IG report the partisan spinners were discounting before it even published. I am also waiting for the Durham report... This misbehavior by our intelligence community is more than a few missed crossed t's, but like i said before opinions vary (both sides are pretty entrenched in their two different movies).  Mostly I'm waiting for next Nov but doubt the partisan enmity will end even then. I really miss the good old days when we could ignore politics between elections, now it corrupts our every day life including this DIY audio electronics forum.

 

[Recording Engineer]

No, I got the reference. I was just able to weed through the emotion and focused on the rationale. Therefore, the impact of the report isn’t lost on me, nor the nothing burger comment.

I don’t disagree (is anybody here?) about the sentiment of intelligence community. What I do not fall for is the blatant politicalization of that sentiment.

I don’t know... Something’s amiss when even someone like me can't keep my mouth shut about politics! It must be Trump, he’s so special.

 

[iomegaman]

I dislike having to explain my obscure references but here I go again...



PS: . I said I was waiting for the IG report the partisan spinners were discounting before it even published. I am also waiting for the Durham report... This misbehavior by our intelligence community is more than a few missed crossed t's, but like i said before opinions vary (both sides are pretty entrenched in their two different movies).  Mostly I'm waiting for next Nov but doubt the partisan enmity will end even then. I really miss the good old days when we could ignore politics between elections, now it corrupts our every day life including this DIY audio electronics forum.

The evidence of misbehavior by the intelligence community seems greatly exaggerated and  lacking in substance...prove me wrong.

I've heard these arguments before and they seem to be the talking points of a misinformation strategy especially coming from certain arms of nation states run by russian mafia...

Who benefits most by blaming the intelligence community for political bias?

If you have not read or at least familiarized yourself with Bill Browders Red Notice, you really should get up to speed on how this sort of stuff is used to distract.

Politicizing and then weaponizing justice departments is the snack food of dictators.

 

[Recording Engineer]

I see that side too.  Hence my problem... I’m not black and white, like most seem to be.

 

[boji]

By the way, the lack of indictment and conviction really doesn’t have anything to with one being innocent either

+1
Likely mountains of bones are picked through and discarded in favor of one or two pieces of evidence that will bear scrutiny and not risk damaging a case during cross-examination. I imagine DA's need something akin to supercriticality of motive, proof and luck when a defendant has the best lawyers money can buy.

NOTHING OF THE SORT HAPPENED
exaggerated and  lacking in substance...prove me wrong.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence... or something like that. Goes both ways here tho. Trump and FBI.

Who benefits most by blaming the intelligence community for political bias?

Whichever side happens to be defending themselves in front of a camera this week.