DIY compressor for bass guitar

[Smoke]

Hello everyone,

I'm a new enthusiast and this hangout looks pretty cool. I'm halfway through my first DIY project, the G9 preamp. Good work Jacob.

I have a few questions (obviously, im a newbie).

1) I've read nearly every post discussing input and output transformers, and still I couln't decide on which brand to choose. I'm located in Australia, Melbourne, and OEP, Lundahl and Hammond (and other brands) are available to me. In general most people are happier with Lundahl, however a few say OEP have a better sound. OEP is $41 AUD and Lundahl around $70.
Can someone give a comparison between these transformers.
My applications are:
Running vocals
Playing bass through it (experimenting), i like chunky, powerfull with cut mids
possibly guitar and drums.
Music style is rock, fast punk rock and so on.
I would appreciate advice on input and output transformers,possible with facts and data.

2)The next project I plan is a compressor to use on a bass guitar. is the LA2a a good option, or SSL better? or a Vari-mu?

3) then comes the EQ. to use together with the G9, possibly on bass guitar. The pultec EQ looks nice. any other suggestions considering my applications?

4) I noticed some people are from australia. Where do you guys get your transformers,caps and tubes from? It seems like they are hard to find!

I'd appreciate responses and any other suggestions on equipment that may be useful for me.

I'll submit photos of my G9 soon!

thanks guys.

 

[synthetic]

The SSL compressor is designed for a full mix to play through. The LA2A is a good choice, but the 1176 might be a more popular compressor for bass guitar.

 

[alk509]

[quote author="Smoke"]The pultec EQ looks nice.[/quote]

Not for punk rock bass guitar, though. More of an acoustic upright bass EQ, IMO.

Peace,
Al.

 

[jrmintz]

The beauty of this DIY stuff is that it opens up the possibility of trying a couple of different compressors, like the LA2A and the 1176, at a reasonable cost so you can pick what actually sounds best in each situation, rather than trying to predict what might sound best in a general way. Build them both and I guarantee you'll use them both.

If you have a G9 and an LA2A or 1176, how do you know you'll need an EQ for the bass? If you do, you might need a better sounding bass. You can't know until you try it.

Good luck!

:thumb: :thumb:

 

[Kev]

Welcome to Smoke.

another Melbourne DIY'er ... :thumb:

Generally bass guitar responds well to an opto comp as first stage comp to even things out. That's why the LA2 is often used a recording comp for bass.

You can then use one of the faster units for the effect, during mixdown ... or just go with another dose of LA2(opto).

 

[soundguy]

hey smoke, welcome to the lab!

What Im about to say may either be entirely worthless to you, or really helpful. So far as bass goes, which for me is always the damn hardest thing to record, there is no "right" box and there sure as shit aint no "genre" gear that I have felt appropriate for bass. If you could get into application specific info about your intentions, I think you'll get a whole lot better advice on which direction to take your project.

The LA2A is pretty reknown for its reputation with bass. Thats all well and fine, I dont recall ever using an LA2A on a bass and being excited about it, I do mostly rock and roll, so thats my experience, but the context of this is everything. If you are recording on a computer, a limiter with a tube stage like an La2a might be an excellent excellent way to go for you. You cant go wrong with a 1176, however, if you compress all your guitars with an 1176 like I like to do, chances are you arent going to want to compress your bass with it unless you want to take some dimension out of your mix, which perhaps you do. Ive used my G-SSL on bass and the artifacts of a VCA limiter are really well suited for bass in a rock and roll environment, the dbx160 has a good rep for bass based on just that.

There are so many millions of different directions to go with getting a bass to sit right in a mix and without it turning your show into a mud festival, its soo hard to come right up with a catch all box for most situations. Also, there are many different ways to use a limiter, and I think people rarely consider this when talking about limiters, as if to suggest that engineers use them all the same way. If you are using it to just tame peaks, its hard to argue with a la2a as the nonlinearity of the opto release is wholly unique and if you are only touching it down 2 dB or so, nothing is gonna get you near what that box will do for you. Its a tube amp though, so its also going to take a lot of definition out of whatever you put into it, which is either a great or horrible thing depending upon your situation. If you need to bury a bass into a limiter to change the TONE of the thing, the G-SSL will get you rockin' as will an 1176.

When it comes to transformers, this again, will put your bass in a different space in your mix. Lundahls get closest to the idea of a 3-d transparent speaker type of thing that I have heard. Jensen makes some very hifi sounding transformers that also sound really saturated in comparison, which Ive always preferred for bass. Ive been using a box with carnhill transformers lately that I like alot for bass, mostly because of what the transformers do to the space around the bass.

The thing to realize is that an optical limiter, a vca limiter and a fet limiter will put identical program into very different parts of a mix, a diode bridge limiter will put the same stuff in yet a different place. Its a big fat balancing act when using this stuff, it may be that vocals sound "best" through this one type of limiter, but because you used this type of limiter here, and that tyype of limiter there, when it comes to the vocal sitting in the mix, its actually better to use this third type that doesnt sound "best" on the vocal, but sounds "best" for the song. At any point, what was good in that situation, will not be good in this one.

If you are doing rock stuff, if you know any of the 90's terry date records, many are very good advertisements for tthe ssl sound. If you listen to something like soundgarden "badmotorfinger", thats what a G-SSL can do to the stuff you feed it, and thats DEFINITELY what it sounds like. If you listen to the vocals on the very last soundgarden record, the sibilance on many of the vocal tracks on that record is from an 1176, so you can get an idea of what that sounds like. If you can find a copy of the cover of "I know Im losing you" from the first rod stewart solo record, that is a really excellent example of what an LA2A can sound like. I dont know that this is the gear that was specifically used in these examples, but the gear Ive cited can certainly get you sounds and control similar to that.

Beyond ALL that, if you are building something for the first time, the G-SSL is very easy to build and its very easy to trouble shoot if you make an error and if you lose steam and get frustrated, its not very expensive to make (its transformerless) so if you trash it, you arent throwing away a significant parts investment.

Hopefully you'll find this helpful. I make records more than I build stuff, so perhaps my perspective is helpful and not confusing. All these boxes are great and if you build any of the mentioned boxes you'll be able to make them work in one situation or another depending on your style and the style of the music.

dave

 

[CJ]

If you use the LA2 for bass, short out the cap in the T4 optical module.

 

[alk509]

[quote author="cjenrick"]short out the cap...[/quote]

I was just about to say that...

Peace,
Al.

 

[Bear]

[quote author="cjenrick"]If you use the LA2 for bass, short out the cap in the T4 optical module.[/quote]

What's that do? (I don't have a schematic handy, mind you.)

Bear

 

[Smoke]

Soundguy,dave, thanks for that detailed reply I appreciate it. It seems like i have to experiment more Im pretty keen on building both the SSL and 1176, but first I'll finish the G9.

I actually etched my own PCB's, and to be honest the results seem horrible its my first time.

I'm really keen on building a Mesa bass amp, but its probably too early for me. I have schematics.

Hi Kev, want to share your tube supplier secrets?

Smoke.

 

[rafafredd]

[quote author="Bear"]

What's that do? (I don't have a schematic handy, mind you.)

Bear[/quote]

This let the low frequencies get IN the EL panel...

 

[gyraf]

Good post, Dave!

Smoke,

The G9 is extremely nice as a DI for bass. I'm sure you'll be very happy with that.

We use both 1176 and SSL (just one channel used) for recording bass. Very different beasts - the 1176 can be set to sound kinda agressive, the ssl is generally more smooth.

Jakob E.

 

[StephenGiles]

Might I suggest the What Compressor for bass, very simple to build and quite forgiving at instrument level. Personally, I don't bother with a compressor on bass, I turn down something called "record level". I like a bass to sound like a bass.
Stephen

 

[Emperor-TK]

Smoke,

I built the G9 with one OEP channel and one Lundahl channel. I prefer the OEPs for low end. I haven't done any measurements, but to my ears they generally have more low end, which is also thicker and beefier sounding than the Lundahls. I would say the Lundahls are a bit tighter in the lows, but generally sound more anemic. The OEPs generally have more color, which works beautifully on gtr and vox as well. I have just ordered parts for a secend G9 and am putting all OEPs in there. The difference between the xformers is subtle, but definitely noticible when A/B-ing.

-Chris

 

[NewYorkDave]

I'm not a big fan of compression, but bass guitar and vocals are two things I feel the need to compress most of the time.

I haven't found my "ultimate" compressor for bass yet, so I can't make a hearty recommendation for any particular model. I might be able to form an opinion if I just had the time to play with the junk I already own! The Symetrix 501 is supposed to be really good for bass. I bought one a while back, but haven't even had a chance to try it out yet. Same with the Gates Levil Devil: supposedly makes bass and acoustic guitars sound huge, but I haven't had a chance to fire mine up yet. I need to take a year off work! :wink:

 

[tubejay]

I have to second the comment that you should look at improving your bass rig before using an eq on bass. The best bass sounds I've gotten are with absolutely no eq.

 

[Rob Flinn]

I have to second the comment that you should look at improving your bass rig before using an eq on bass. The best bass sounds I've gotten are with absolutely no eq.

I agree, the name AMPEG sprung to mind imediately, reading your comment.

 

[jrmintz]

Actually, my favorite bass compressor (and it's something I've had a LOT of opportunity to experiment with :green: ) is a dbx 160x. I can't explain other than to say I know how my instrument sounds and it sounds more like itself through a 160x. My favorite signal chain includes a passive DI with a Jensen transformer into a Neve 1064 into the dbx. That's how I sound like me to me. Does that make any sense? A Countryman DI would be my second choice.

:thumb:

 

[tubejay]

[quote author="Rob Flinn"]I have to second the comment that you should look at improving your bass rig before using an eq on bass. The best bass sounds I've gotten are with absolutely no eq.

I agree, the name AMPEG sprung to mind imediately, reading your comment.[/quote]

Absolutely. Another less known or revered brand is Traynor. I've gotten superb results with rock music with old traynor tube bass amps. There's a couple models that sound VERY similar to old SVT's. They have this low and high frequency compression built into some of their amps that sounds amazing.

 

[StephenGiles]

Of course, if you are using a digital recording format, it may be sensible to apply perhaps more compression than one would to an analogue recorder for obvious reasons - unless you are a closet Joe Meek, in which case you need compression up full all the time.
Stephen