DIY Tube Mic project

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Hi @Migs 31

The SP B1 is for a friend : it's under building because I lack some components.

I used two SC440 USB bodies (modified with an "aviation" connector > see early post) and two SC400 capsules (SC440 are electret of course)

Yes I will post some picture of inside. First, the circuit attached (the 22pF is not installed / it's in case if I want a -12dB pad)
My Tr out are Tamura (because I got them unemployed for years) but a Neutrik NTE10/3 fits well this mic.
 

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Tonite I will record a baroque ensemble in a large church and I will put the 6AK5 on the harpiscord.
I think I will need this solo track at the mix since the harpiscord is so weak, its level is really low. I will have to deal with delay to match the ambiance pair.
Otherwise the total orchestra (mostly strings / about 10 musicians) will be captured by an ORTF pair (Superlux S502 DIY).
Recording with Behringer XR18 in 24-48 in Logic Pro
 
Hi !
The concert was great and the musicians played very well. I used an ORTF couple (Superlux S502 DIY) + a WA84 center on the whole orchestra and my 6AK5 on the harpsichord. Yes there was much reverb but I didn't want to take instruments separately.
I was surprised to note how much the 6AK5 rejects rears : the other instruments are very little present in the harpsichord track. Its sound is rich, sparkling, very interesting. A photo of the rehearsals before the concert.

Of course a 20ms delay (6,75m) had been added to the 6AK5 track during the mix to match the couple.

If someone is interesed I could post an excerpt...
 

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An excerpt here (16-44)

final concert 16-44
Nice recording!!! Very full-bodied and clear without anything sounding "strident"!!! GOOD GOING!!!

Whenever I have done similar "LIVE" recordings such as this one, I also place an additional ROYER "SF-12" stereo ribbon-microphone about 15-feet back (4.5m) and about 15-feet (4.5m) high to capture the room sound that are recorded onto separate tracks. Then, when I am mixing the session, I include just enough of the ROYER tracks to add-in some "air" to the mix so everything isn't quite so "dry".

I have always found that these types of recording sessions to be a lot of FUN!!!

/
 
Nice recording!!! Very full-bodied and clear without anything sounding "strident"!!! GOOD GOING!!!

Whenever I have done similar "LIVE" recordings such as this one, I also place an additional ROYER "SF-12" stereo ribbon-microphone about 15-feet back (4.5m) and about 15-feet (4.5m) high to capture the room sound that are recorded onto separate tracks. Then, when I am mixing the session, I include just enough of the ROYER tracks to add-in some "air" to the mix so everything isn't quite so "dry".

I have always found that these types of recording sessions to be a lot of FUN!!!

/
Thank you +++ @MidnightArrakis !
Here we were in a large church so I put an ORTF couple about 3m high pointing to the center of the half circle made by musicians and 2m far from it. So quit close because of the reverb of the place. The reverb is indeed present but does not ruin the recording (my thought).
I added a tube mic (6AK5 project) on the harpiscord which is a very weak instrument and insert it in the mix with 20ms delay and -6,8dB level
 
Some news about the 6AK5 project...

I had some issues with my last recording: small clicks that reminded me of electrostatic discharges (?)
I didn't get them two days before as I recorded another orchestra in another place : was it the local main supply ? was it my set-up ? can't really analyze that... I always use an EMI 3A filter to power my whole setup (tube preamps / audio interface / tube mic PSU's / MacBookPro).

So @thor.zmt suggested changes to improve the power supplies and the microphone wiring. We are now using seven cables so I have to review my PSU and microphone connectors (among others). Attached are the schematics as well as Thor's explanations on the benefits of increasing the heating voltage and common mode filtering.

These mods will be done thru a couple of days and tested.
 

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An excerpt here (16-44)

final concert 16-44

Nice recording.

If you have enough mic's and channels, something to try is a modified Decca tree.

Put an ORTF or similar (I always liked an B&O Stereo Ribbon there) pair front centre, set up for the widest coverage angle, then either omni's at the back. Add the solo mic's you think you need.

Thunderclap recorded centre stage in line with whatever microphone is furthest back on the stage to adjust the delays on all tracks. Also, clone the rear microphone tracks so you have them double.

Now use a ~700Hz first order highpass (phaselinear if your software lets you) on the front pair and a 700Hz first order lowpass on the rear pair. Level and time match and you have a recording that is time difference stereo below ~700Hz, where the stereo position is based on the time difference (hence the use of spaced Omni's) and intensity stereo above 700Hz where the stereo position is based on amplitude difference (hence ORTF or Jaeklin disk or single point stereo Microphones)

Use the second set of rear tracks as "room ambiance" to mix in as needed, if you like your recordings "wet". I used to have analogue box to do that (low/highpass, mic pre and ambiance mix) and recorded to a Studer 2-track mastering machine...

Thor
 
Nice recording.

If you have enough mic's and channels, something to try is a modified Decca tree.

Put an ORTF or similar (I always liked an B&O Stereo Ribbon there) pair front centre, set up for the widest coverage angle, then either omni's at the back. Add the solo mic's you think you need.

Thunderclap recorded centre stage in line with whatever microphone is furthest back on the stage to adjust the delays on all tracks. Also, clone the rear microphone tracks so you have them double.

Now use a ~700Hz first order highpass (phaselinear if your software lets you) on the front pair and a 700Hz first order lowpass on the rear pair. Level and time match and you have a recording that is time difference stereo below ~700Hz, where the stereo position is based on the time difference (hence the use of spaced Omni's) and intensity stereo above 700Hz where the stereo position is based on amplitude difference (hence ORTF or Jaeklin disk or single point stereo Microphones)

Use the second set of rear tracks as "room ambiance" to mix in as needed, if you like your recordings "wet". I used to have analogue box to do that (low/highpass, mic pre and ambiance mix) and recorded to a Studer 2-track mastering machine...

Thor
interesting approach...
when you say an ORTF front center, you mean a typycal cardioid pattern 110° @ 17cm appart ? or a "custom" ORTF wider and with omni's ? Solo mic right in the center is usely a cadio.
So 2 pairs of omni's : one a few feet from the front scene and another pair farer away...
Will draw a ground plan for better understanding
 
Progress on the 6AK5 from Studio Project B1

New PSU is built and works fine.

About the mic, a lot of mechanics to manage, find solutions to fit the tube into the body...
I cut a pcb to the right size. The tube holder is fixed with 22AWG rigid wire and will be glued.
The tube itself fits well, without forcing. It's tight but I think it's ok.
There is still space at the base where the XLR socket is nestled (aviation in my project) to pass the wires (now 7 wires).
Space too to install the Neutrik NTE10/3
To be continued...
 

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when you say an ORTF front center, you mean a typycal cardioid pattern 110° @ 17cm appart ?

Something like that. Everyone has their own idea, which are often more similar than different.

or a "custom" ORTF wider and with omni's ?

No, standard.

Or as said, a single unit stereo mic, I used this:

1724272424097.png
This is a ribbon mic from B&O, two units in one, rotatable.

I also used a Jecklin disk with small format original soviet Oktava SDC's back in East Germany and variable pattern LDC from Gefell at the back.

Solo mic right in the center is usely a cadio.
So 2 pairs of omni's : one a few feet from the front scene and another pair farer away...
Will draw a ground plan for better understanding

Decca tree:

images - 2024-08-22T033548.302.jpeg

I replace the center with a "small" stereo array.

Thor
 
Something like that. Everyone has their own idea, which are often more similar than different.
Well the official standard ORTF is a couple of cardio 110°@17cm appart
Or as said, a single unit stereo mic, I used this:

View attachment 135293
This is a ribbon mic from B&O, two units in one, rotatable.
In that case the setup is much different since B&O are ribbon so fig.8
Decca tree:

View attachment 135294

I replace the center with a "small" stereo array.

Thor
Decca tree used Neumann M50 if I'm right, so omni pattern... Neumann created this ref. for that special config. at a time.

So you propose to replace the center mic by an ORTF couple... and add another omni pair (with EQ as you said) farer behind the front ones, let's say 4-5 meters away ?
 
Something like that. Everyone has their own idea, which are often more similar than different.



No, standard.

Or as said, a single unit stereo mic, I used this:

View attachment 135293
This is a ribbon mic from B&O, two units in one, rotatable.

I also used a Jecklin disk with small format original soviet Oktava SDC's back in East Germany and variable pattern LDC from Gefell at the back.



Decca tree:

View attachment 135294

I replace the center with a "small" stereo array.

Thor
Decca themselves never used a tree that big; it only varied between 130 and 137 cm wide, with the center half that distance out front (a far cry from 1.5 meters).

There is some evidence that in Decca's final years some engineers tried larger trees, but the vast majority of the catalog was done with the above dimensions. The biggest variable was the level of the center mic which was set by ear for each situation.

Big 2 meters or so trees have become common in film scoring, but they're used for surround.
 
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Well the official standard ORTF is a couple of cardio 110°@17cm appart

In that case the setup is much different since B&O are ribbon so fig.8

Decca tree used Neumann M50 if I'm right, so omni pattern... Neumann created this ref. for that special config. at a time.

So you propose to replace the center mic by an ORTF couple... and add another omni pair (with EQ as you said) farer behind the front ones, let's say 4-5 meters away ?
The only mics Decca used after the first few experiments was KM56 in cardioid (only a few times) and M 50, which while an omni, above about 1.5kHz becomes increasingly directional till nearly supercardioid in the top octave (a few times in overreverberent acoustics they used subcardioids); they never used any other omni, and never a stereo mic for the center. For the Tree to 'gel' into that classic Decca sound, all three mics must be identical.

Anything with a stereo pair of any kind in the center is no longer a Decca Tree, but simply a kind of four microphone array which has no formal name.

The other thing to keep in mind about the Tree, is that they never panned the left and right mics hard L and R, but panned them in a bit. This way the hole was reduced a bit and therefore less level was needed from the center mic.

In later years, some at Decca (Kenneth Wilkinson and John Dunkerley, for example) left out the center mic altogether, and instead used a 91cm AB pair panned-in several percent (more than with the 3-mic Tree), to strengthen the center. I believe all the Charles Gerhardt Classic Film Score series were done this way (by Wilkinson).
 
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Well the official standard ORTF is a couple of cardio 110°@17cm appart

I use ORTF as "grab bag" for many similar arrangements.

1724315348984.png

In that case the setup is much different since B&O are ribbon so fig.8

Yes and no.

All these "minimal array" options, including Blumlein crossed 8 (which this ribbon is) and M/S, use intensity stereo.

That is there is no appreciable time difference between L/R for these microphone arrangements, only level difference between L/R.

This does two things, first, there is much less comb filtering if mixed down to mono and the angle of incidence covered is very wide.

https://sengpielaudio.com/Aufnahmebereich01.pdf

The problem is, below ~700Hz the stereo placement and effect is less determined by level intensity and more by time delay difference.

Decca tree used Neumann M50 if I'm right, so omni pattern... Neumann created this ref. for that special config. at a time.

Yes.

The Decca Tree is an attempt to get "laufzeit stereo" with a clear center image, where there would normally be a "hole in the middle" as the placement of the L/R microphones is too wide.

The result is a great room impression and a clear centre, but overall instrument placement in the phantom soundstage is poor. Minmal "point" arrays are pretty much the opposite.

Experiments in the 80's led me to a system that is "2-Way" and radically different.

But I only did it for coursework as I normally did Rock'n'roll, so I never did much with it.

So you propose to replace the center mic by an ORTF couple... and add another omni pair (with EQ as you said) farer behind the front ones, let's say 4-5 meters away ?

No.

I propose a classic Decca tree equivalent with a "small" directional array up front (ORTF & Blumlein are the posterchildren for that) instead of a mono microphone and suitable microphones at the rear. No need to obsess about "M50".

I propose to create a means for a time delay correction for all microphones used, to allow seamless mixing.

And I propose to use microphones with excellent low frequency characteristics (anything but omnis sounds weedy in the bass and EQ don't quite fixes it) for low frequencies with an arrangement that gives the best stereo localisation for low frequencies and microphones with excellent high frequency characteristics (e.g. 1/4" Cardioid Condensor or ribbons) with an arrangement that gives the best stereo localisation for medium and high frequencies.

I then propose to create a crossover between the two sets of microphones at around 700Hz. In the "old days" I did that with RL circuits and used allpass circuits (front array delayed with RL ladder) to compensate the 1.5m distance between front array and rear microphones.

My "Box" contained standard east German Microphone transformers and simple discrete 2-Transistor microphone pre X 4, neccesary buffers and four stereo faders to set the mixdown levels for these signals:

Front highpassed,
Front full range,
Rear lowpassed (lowpass adjustable 100....1000Hz)
Rear full range

This allowed the the then common (in commie east germany) recording directly to 2 track tape, with gain riding "live" to compress dynamics manually (yes, at one time my job was "compressor").

Thor
 
Decca themselves never used a tree that big; it only varied between 130 and 137 cm wide, with the center half that distance out front (a far cry from 1.5 meters).

It's possible my tree was smaller. It's A LONG TIME AGO. And in a Country far, far away, behind seven seas, seven mountains the great wall of Berlin, when it still stood and was a popular tourists attraction.

Having a center pair for a Decca Tree is not uncommon.

Good. Was it common in the 1980's? Quite possible, we were kind isolated behind the Iron curtain.

I used microphones I owned or that were in the "fundus".

I've seen it with an ORTF pair and Ron Streicher used a Soundfield mic. In fact, he went beyond the basic Decca Tree. http://www.123seminarsonly.com/Seminar-Reports/2016-01/92463083-Surround-Sound-Decca-Tree-urtext.pdf

Interesting.

1724323801585.png
This is broadly similar to my final arrangement used in the 1990's with the B&O Stereo Ribbon mic in the front position and RCA LDCondensors in the rear for occasional recordings of early & classical music. It is debatable if a Blumlein 8 or M/S are the better choice in the front position, however in my case it was simply down to availability.

Previously in the mid to late 80's I experimented with ORTF, DIN, NOS, XY and Jeklin in the front position using SDC Microphones (Octava or Gefell), ending up with XY most often, IIRC. Rears were always big variable pattern Gefell's most likely set Omni, but it has been a while.

I never actually used a "tree" but always individual microphone stands, so spacing was easily adjusted. I may have used less than 1.5m front to back, as 1.5m delay at 700Hz are a lot of time compensation to do passive (or active) and less than 2m base distance. Again, it has been a while.

Thor
 
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