Electron tube pre output stages shootout

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I suspect that is what was done in the original application which was for transmitters. There is definitely a lot of discussion in audio circles about optimization of an SRPP for minimum distortion into a specific load but that does no interest me. The distortion is certainly worse away from the optimum but not so bad that a little NFB can't fix it.
Indeed. My comment was just addressed to the miconception that being capable of driving headphones means it will perform very well driving a line input.
Subjectively, the SRPP can sound 'nice'
I dont have a nicemeter...
Because it is class A all the way. I never quite understood the fixation with class B output stages. A class A push pull stage can theoretically beup to 50% efficient and a class B can be up to 63%.
You're comparing apples and oranges. 50% is for a xfmr-loaded SE, and Push-pull class B has theoretical max efficiency of 78.5%. A resistor-loaded SE reaches 25% max. However, we all know that efficiency in line level devices is far from being a dominany factor. Particularly today, when we don't need to send +24dBu into 600 ohms.
Indeed, sonic quality comes first, and sonic quality comes from design. that's why I mentioned that many different approaches have been taken by the giants on which shoulders we stand, with brilliant results in many cases.
Class B (actually AB) makes sense for linear power amplification.
 
miconception that being capable of driving headphones means it will perform very well driving a line input.
yes youre right. SRPP has lowest THD at specific load (at which ac are symmetric for the triodes if i get it right). So such output would sound different into different loads like 10k ADC or 600ohm-input compressor. But if it is about more or less even harmonics im okay with this
 
yes youre right. SRPP has lowest THD at specific load (at which ac are symmetric for the triodes if i get it right). So such output would sound different into different loads like 10k ADC or 600ohm-input compressor. But if it is about more or less even harmonics im okay with this
The distortion produced by all output stages varies with the load and output level. It is true the SRPP produces its lowest distortion at a particular load but so does every other output stage so I am puzzled why the SRPP is singled out for special treatment.

Cheers

Ian
 
The distortion produced by all output stages varies with the load and output level. It is true the SRPP produces its lowest distortion at a particular load but so does every other output stage so I am puzzled why the SRPP is singled out for special treatment.
It may be because most of the other topologies have distortion that decreases as the load lightens, when SRPP has the singularity of having an optimum, which is somewhat counter-intuitive.
 
It may be because most of the other topologies have distortion that decreases as the load lightens, when SRPP has the singularity of having an optimum, which is somewhat counter-intuitive.
That sounds like a reasonable explanation. I need to do some tests to see just how much variation in distortion with load occurs in an SRPP.

Cheers

Ian
 
just watched "mu-follower" measurements video. Circuit tuned for particular 6n6p tube. Left part "Без гармоник" is the results for -90db harmonics level. Also it is shown in the video that mu-follwer has overall lower THD compared to SRPP but with some loads it has dominating 3rd harmonic
 

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just watched "mu-follower" measurements video. Circuit tuned for particular 6n6p tube. Left part "Без гармоник" is the results for -90db harmonics level. Also it is shown in the video that mu-follwer has overall lower THD compared to SRPP but with some loads it has dominating 3rd harmonic
Mu follower definitely has lower distortion than an SRPP using the same tube. In fact it is probably the best way to get the lowest distortion out of a tube without resorting to the use of semiconductor constant current sources. However, it is single ended so it does not have the drive capability of an SRPP. I used mu followers a lot in my early mixer designs and one option of the classic solo mic pre is to build it with a pair of mu follower stages.

Cheers

Ian
 
Harmonic restoration is the idea that perverted audio in the 70's and led to uncontrolled use of the Aphex processor.
No analog processing can result in adding only selected harmonics to a signal; there are always other harmonics involved that are clearly heard as distortion.

I like the idea to unbalance srpp with different resistors to get dominating 2nd harmonic distortion. I think that is why i see unbalanced srpp out stages everywhere, it is more euphonic
 
Harmonic restoration is the idea that perverted audio in the 70's and led to uncontrolled use of the Aphex processor.
No analog processing can result in adding only selected harmonics to a signal; there are always other harmonics involved that are clearly heard as distortion.
Back in the early days of "audio exciters" I would try to tune in the FM radio stations better to reduce the audible distortion. ;)

JR
 
It may be because most of the other topologies have distortion that decreases as the load lightens, when SRPP has the singularity of having an optimum, which is somewhat counter-intuitive.
The SRPP is a two-stage amplifier. Most two-stage amplifiers (e.g. two similar cascaded gain stages) also exhibit a distortion null due to similar cancellation effects, so really there is not much difference.
That sounds like a reasonable explanation. I need to do some tests to see just how much variation in distortion with load occurs in an SRPP.
Just an FYI, the SRPP usually only shows a distortion null when the lower triode cathode resistor remains unypassed.
 

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The SRPP is a two-stage amplifier. Most two-stage amplifiers (e.g. two similar cascaded gain stages) also exhibit a distortion null due to similar cancellation effects,
Do they? I woud think distortion cancellation happens when two similar tubes operate in similar conditions (current, load). I don't see a typical cascaded two-stage amplifier (with largely different loads) benefiting the same advantage. Not mentioning the gain difference.
 
The SRPP is a two-stage amplifier. Most two-stage amplifiers (e.g. two similar cascaded gain stages) also exhibit a distortion null due to similar cancellation effects, so really there is not much difference
We all know that in triodes, distortion is proportional to output level (all else remaining constant). In an SRPP, the output level in both triodes is very nearly identical. In a simple cascade (two similar cascaded gain stages ), the signal level at the output of the first stage is lower than that at the output of the second stage by an amount equal to the gain of the second stage so any null is likely to be insignificant unless the gain of the second stage is deliberately reduced (e.g. REDD 47).
Just an FYI, the SRPP usually only shows a distortion null when the lower triode cathode resistor remains unbypassed.
Interesting. I must check that out.

Cheers

Ian
 
Do they? I woud think distortion cancellation happens when two similar tubes operate in similar conditions (current, load). I don't see a typical cascaded two-stage amplifier (with largely different loads) benefiting the same advantage. Not mentioning the gain difference.
Yes I was thinking of an equivalent situation where the signal is attenuated between the stages, so both operate similarly. Sorry for misleading
 
What do you think of this linestage? Anode choke output, german pro-audio style.:)
version two.jpg
 
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How much gain do you want from it? You really do not want the feedback loop to load the output stage so you might typically ensure it is 10 times the nominal load on the output. With the 12K:600 transformer shown on your schematic you would aim for the NFB to load it by no more than 120K. With a 430R cathode resistor in the first stage this implies a closed loop gain of about 49dB - probably not what you want.

Cheers

Ian
 
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