EMF from residential power lines

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john12ax7

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Does anyone have any practical experience as to what strength of EMF is generated from US power lines, the kind on wooden poles in residential neighborhoods (see attached pic). Considering a new home / workshop / recording studio. Measuring is not possible right now, so is there a practical minimum distance where it's not an issue? Wondering if anyone has first hand experience dealing with this.
 

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60 cycle is likely not an issue unless you have low level circuitry in close proximity to large motors or transformers. An electric guitar pickup will ‘sniff’ emf. Rf from leaking porcelain insulators will emit rf that travels farther than mains current disturbances and can be detected with an am radio as static/hash. I think digital noise can be more problematic/intermittent.
 
I don't know but bear in mind that electromagnetic fields are generated by currents whereas power lines are high voltage / low current so that the cable can be thinner (cheaper) without melting. So my guess would be that it shouldn't really be a problem. If there are effects from power lines, I would be more concerned with electric fields and not magnetic fields. Fortunately electric fields can be completely blocked with full shielding. The problem is that if you have even a little hole in your shield, like a gap in a cable shield, the electric field will go right through and charge up the inner surface.

So if you live right next to HT lines, you will need to wear a hat made out of aluminum foil.
 
Forget about any rule of thumb for a "safe" distance.

Anecdote: I once had a case where the fire service's transmitters caught HF interference on their radios from another fire service 250 km away. They were on the same frequency, but at that distance and with only 15W HF power it shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Turned out high-voltage lines were transporting the HF signal and there was enough HF on the other end to produce interference. Changed one service to another frequency and the problem was gone.
 
An electric guitar pickup will ‘sniff’ emf

That is a good point, I was thinking "just use balanced connections everywhere and don't worry about it" but not really an option if you like Strats for example. I got sick of hum so put some of those really skinny humbuckers in my Strat (thin enough that I didn't have to enlarge the routing). Doesn't sound quite the same, but nice and quiet.
But I think the wiring in the walls and in my equipment was more to blame for that than anything on top of a pole.
 
One thing that might make a difference is using AC mains wiring inside of metal conduit within the building. Conduit is a pain to install, and so-called "BX" is an alternative:

https://www.thespruce.com/bx-wire-guide-to-armored-electrical-cable-1821519
In addition to having an outer metal sheath, the insulated conductors inside the BX are twisted together.

"Romex" is most commonly used in residental installations (it's cheaper!) and has no metal sheath and the conductors aren't twisted.

Bri
 
Think I will get an EMF meter and do some experiments at my current location to gain some insights. And then try and get an escape clause for the new spot if it ends up being a too hard to solve issue.
 
Im homing in on a low cost self build dwelling , plastic coated metal clad , wooden frame ,
gothicarchcabins being the inspiration, even sub atomic particles from space are going to have a hard time getting through, Anderson MkX

what about if you live in close proximity to a mobile phone mast ,
I'm hearing strong anecdotal evidence of increased rates of cancers in children and teens who lived in such locations all their life .
 
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Think I will get an EMF meter and do some experiments at my current location to gain some insights. And then try and get an escape clause for the new spot if it ends up being a too hard to solve issue.
A "fast and dirty" tool is a battery powered/portable radio that covers the AM radio broadcast band. Tune to unused frequencies (away from the Talk Radio stations) and listen/wander around the area.

Bri
 
That would be an option, there are various types of RF sniffers. But how to measure magnetic fields? Some research suggests you want to keep it under 1mG. Not sure how to do that measurement without a meter. The Erickhill (cheap) and Trifield (expensive) are two options. Anyone with experience with either?
 
Those three phase local power distribution up on power poles is typically > 10kV but magnetic fields is about current not voltage.

I recall years (decades?) ago a lot of drama from people living under power lines complaining about health issues. You can probably find medical studies in the literature researching and maybe quantifying that. AFAIK this is considered non ionizing radiation so harmless to humans.

For sniffing out magnetic fields perhaps a high impedance (single coil) guitar pickup connected to a scope, or headphone amp.

JR
 
I use an old Behringer ECM8000 mic to find some sources of noise. The capsule was defective and I replaced it with a needle. Easy to point around and see where the noise is coming from.

Together with RME's DigiCheck I can see things I can't hear. Up to 70 kHz I guess.
 
For sniffing out magnetic fields perhaps a high impedance (single coil) guitar pickup connected to a scope, or headphone amp.

Short of investing in serious training Ng and associated kit this seems most practicable route. Even if it does seem a bit crude.
H-field stuff so distance is your friend rather than "normal" non-ferrous screening.
Suggest in first instance best to investigate if there is a real problem.
 
I don't know but bear in mind that electromagnetic fields are generated by currents whereas power lines are high voltage / low current so that the cable can be thinner (cheaper) without melting. So my guess would be that it shouldn't really be a problem. If there are effects from power lines, I would be more concerned with electric fields and not magnetic fields. Fortunately electric fields can be completely blocked with full shielding. The problem is that if you have even a little hole in your shield, like a gap in a cable shield, the electric field will go right through and charge up the inner surface.

So if you live right next to HT lines, you will need to wear a hat made out of aluminum foil.
Unless you ground that foil hat, it won't do anything about the electric field ...
 
That would be an option, there are various types of RF sniffers. But how to measure magnetic fields? Some research suggests you want to keep it under 1mG. Not sure how to do that measurement without a meter. The Erickhill (cheap) and Trifield (expensive) are two options. Anyone with experience with either?
I use the Tri-Field meter as a standard part of my field troubleshooting kit (I get at least a half-dozen "HELP!!" calls a year to troubleshoot and cure audio system noise. And magnetic fields are the cause in about half the cases. A normal background level for power-frequency (50-60 Hz) is under about 0.5 milli-Gauss. The Tri-Field has a 0 to 3 mG most-sensitive scale. Generally, fields have to reach several tens of mG to be a serious problem with guitars. In one rehearsal hall I was called to, one end of a stage was described as "unplayable" for electric guitars. Holding the meter at waist level and walking toward that end of the stage saw readings climb to a bit over 70 mG. Moving it upward gave a drop in reading and moving down increased it. At the floor, the reading was over 300 mG! Turned out there was a water pipe under the floor and, using my clamp-on ammeter, I confirmed it was carrying 13 A of power-line current. Strangely, everything in the electrical hookup was completely Code compliant. It turned out that the 13 A was flowing from the N-G bond in the building next door (which had its utility feed from the same power lines in the alley) to the N-G bond in my client's building via the main water line connections to each building. The voltage that drove the current was the normal voltage drop in the neutral of the power line in the alley). The cure (and perfectly legal) was to have a plumber install an insulated union on the water line coming in from the street. My client was happy, needless to say!
 
One thing that might make a difference is using AC mains wiring inside of metal conduit within the building. Conduit is a pain to install, and so-called "BX" is an alternative:

https://www.thespruce.com/bx-wire-guide-to-armored-electrical-cable-1821519
In addition to having an outer metal sheath, the insulated conductors inside the BX are twisted together.

"Romex" is most commonly used in residental installations (it's cheaper!) and has no metal sheath and the conductors aren't twisted.

Bri
Unless there's something seriously wrong in electrical wiring, there is zero net magnetic radiation from Romex. Since the same current flows, but in opposite direction, in the white (neutral) and black (line) wires, their magnetic fields completely cancel each other. So a ferromagnetic sheath would be a waste of money and effort. If there IS a significant external magnetic field coming from Romex, it means there's another return path for the current somewhere else. This could be caused by a "bootleg" ground (where neutral is tied to safety ground) for example. Occasionally, this can happen accidentally when a neutral wire gets pinched in a J-box somewhere. But more often, it's an amateur electrician who sees the same zero volts on neutral and safety ground and assumes they're interchangeable!!

Anyone who wants to dig deeper into the subject of AC power wiring and magnetic fields or system noise can refer to the handout notes from one of my typical seminars on the subject at
https://centralindianaaes.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/indy-aes-2012-seminar-w-notes-v1-0.pdf

For anyone in the Dallas, TX area, I'll be presenting a similar seminar at the CEDIA (home theater) convention on Sept 30.
 
Unless there's something seriously wrong in electrical wiring, there is zero net magnetic radiation from Romex. Since the same current flows, but in opposite direction, in the white (neutral) and black (line) wires, their magnetic fields completely cancel each other. So a ferromagnetic sheath would be a waste of money and effort. If there IS a significant external magnetic field coming from Romex, it means there's another return path for the current somewhere else. This could be caused by a "bootleg" ground (where neutral is tied to safety ground) for example. Occasionally, this can happen accidentally when a neutral wire gets pinched in a J-box somewhere. But more often, it's an amateur electrician who sees the same zero volts on neutral and safety ground and assumes they're interchangeable!!

Anyone who wants to dig deeper into the subject of AC power wiring and magnetic fields or system noise can refer to the handout notes from one of my typical seminars on the subject at
https://centralindianaaes.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/indy-aes-2012-seminar-w-notes-v1-0.pdf

For anyone in the Dallas, TX area, I'll be presenting a similar seminar at the CEDIA (home theater) convention on Sept 30.

Yes. Poorly wired electrics can give problems even when it functions as designed. Eg "Borrowed" neutrals etc. making large loop areas. Understanding that North American practices may deviate from UK/EU practices.
 
Unless there's something seriously wrong in electrical wiring, there is zero net magnetic radiation from Romex. Since the same current flows, but in opposite direction, in the white (neutral) and black (line) wires, their magnetic fields completely cancel each other. So a ferromagnetic sheath would be a waste of money and effort. If there IS a significant external magnetic field coming from Romex, it means there's another return path for the current somewhere else. This could be caused by a "bootleg" ground (where neutral is tied to safety ground) for example. Occasionally, this can happen accidentally when a neutral wire gets pinched in a J-box somewhere. But more often, it's an amateur electrician who sees the same zero volts on neutral and safety ground and assumes they're interchangeable!!

Anyone who wants to dig deeper into the subject of AC power wiring and magnetic fields or system noise can refer to the handout notes from one of my typical seminars on the subject at
https://centralindianaaes.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/indy-aes-2012-seminar-w-notes-v1-0.pdf

For anyone in the Dallas, TX area, I'll be presenting a similar seminar at the CEDIA (home theater) convention on Sept 30.
Hi, Bill.....thanks for your comments.

I was thinking more along the lines (no pun intended) about "hash" from computers, and who knows what else, being radiated from the wiring versus a electromagnetic field. Do your comments also apply for this situation?

Bri
 
Hi, Bill.....thanks for your comments.

I was thinking more along the lines (no pun intended) about "hash" from computers, and who knows what else, being radiated from the wiring versus a electromagnetic field. Do your comments also apply for this situation?

Bri

All radiated emissions are electromagnetic. There are simply differences in the ratio of E and H fields.
 
Turned out there was a water pipe under the floor and, using my clamp-on ammeter, I confirmed it was carrying 13 A of power-line current. Strangely, everything in the electrical hookup was completely Code compliant. It turned out that the 13 A was flowing from the N-G bond in the building next door (which had its utility feed from the same power lines in the alley) to the N-G bond in my client's building via the main water line connections to each building.

Thanks for that story! You just gave me an idea for a case we considered "solved" by an isolation transformer on the one installation that hummed. It was a mystery to me how an isolation transformer would help in that case.

I never considered water pipes carrying current. Seems I need to revisit that site after all these years, if only to satisfy my curiousity.
 
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