Espionage and other things

[pucho812]

Might as well get the elephant in the room out. I am sure some are bitting at the bit with this one.
Trumps indictment over classified documents. What can I say, other than I don’t get it.

I don’t quite understand the charges and how they fit based on everything to date regarding the documents in question.
But maybe a more in tune legal scholar can explain it to me like I am a 5 year old.

 

[user 37518]

Easy, Hunter's laptop, ok. Trump, not ok.

 

[pucho812]

Easy, Hunter's laptop, ok. Trump, not ok.

I get that part but I want to know why.
Parties aside at the end of the day to make this stick they have to show things like proof, intent, basically all the usual things required under law if they wish to proceed and find him guilty. Then again it might just be enough to get a news cycle in and done.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Well I haven’t actually heard the charges. I’ve only heard he’s been indicted for his intentional handling (possibly actively hiding?) of classified documents or otherwise just government property, while the government was actively trying to get them back. There’s been some rumblings of 7 charges. We won’t know the charges until he’s actually charged.

This has everything to do with Trump. Hunter has nothing to do with it. He’ll get his day in court… Or he won’t. That’s another subject entirely; absolutely no matter how much people try to marry the two.

Me to a 5-year old; or maybe more like 7 or 8 or 9 or Trump and his supporters:
This is about being in charge of only one person. Yourself. This is about being responsible for your own actions. This is about there being consequences for your actions.

 

[Recording Engineer]

From my local news, I think Doug Ose at the end makes it very very clear. -Get past the long ad:
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/...er-latest-indictment/?intcid=CNM-00-10abd1h#x

 

[L´Andratté]

Easy, Hunter's laptop, ok. Trump, not ok.

A tiny little bit more , please...

Might as well get the elephant in the room out. I am sure some are bitting at the bit with this one.
Trumps indictment over classified documents. What can I say, other than I don’t get it.

I don’t quite understand the charges and how they fit based on everything to date regarding the documents in question.
But maybe a more in tune legal scholar can explain it to me like I am a 5 year old

Even a five year old child would understand this just fine without much explanation if it wanted to.
I´m serious (as much as I can, focusing on US politics).

Though we have to factor in that Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and
still be "INNOCENT"...

 

[pucho812]

A tiny little bit more , please...

Even a five year old child would understand this just fine without much explanation if it wanted to.
I´m serious (as much as I can, focusing on US politics).

Though we have to factor in that Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and
still be "INNOCENT"...

A lot of people could shoot someone in 5th Avenue these days and be innocent, ny is not nearly as safe as it used to be.

 

[JohnRoberts]

ex-president Trump has been under attack from the deep state since even before he was elected the first time.

The most recent indictment is still sealed but it is looking like process charges (obstructing justice, lying to investigators, etc. the goto gotcha charge used by the feds). Trying to charge him for having secret documents puts him on a growing list of other former white house residents (including Joe Biden, and more). This obvious political bias in prosecution would be embarrassing to Justice.

There are reportedly other indictments bubbling up in the system, probably timed to maximally interfere with 2024 primary and general election.

It looks like they want Trump to run again so they can keep Joe in the basement like last time, but for Trump to be so slimed with inferences of criminal behavior that he is unelectable. He may need to make a campaign promise to pardon himself.

I am weary of both of them. I suspect I am not alone, but not in charge.

=====

Of note the FD-1023 form includes an unverified allegation from a human source who said Biden, when he was vice president, was involved in a bribery scheme involving a foreign national. This was related to Burisma (Ukrainian energy company that paid Hunter as a Director). Joe famously bragged about getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired who was investigating Burisma for corruption. There is a video clip of then VP Biden bragging that he would withhold $1B in US aid if that prosecutor was not immediately fired.

The phone call that Trump was impeached for was Trump asking Zellensky to reopen that corruption investigation, no doubt to smear Biden.

The FD-1023 was not investigated as far as we know. It alleges that Hunter and Joe were paid $5M each (?) by the Ukrainian owner of Burisma. The Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Burisma was fired after VP Biden's very public insistence.

This was back when Joe Biden could still remember names.
===

When President Biden was recently asked by reporters about this he glibly answered "show me the money". More than 150 Biden family bank transactions have been flagged as suspicious. There is a network of shell corporations that could be used to conceal money flows.

CAVEAT... this is not proof of wrongdoing but why in the world are justice and intelligence agencies ignoring all this smoke... Only since republicans regained control in the house have they become more aggressive pursuing the truth.

JR

 

[pucho812]

I am reminded of the Simpsons. There is a scene where homer gets elected as union representative during negotiations.
He asks if the job pays anything. One of the crowd says it doesn’t pay anything unless you’re crooked. Seems to run a similar thread to government.

 

[Recording Engineer]

ex-president Trump has been under attack from the deep state since even before he was elected the first time.

I don’t understand why you always must use this excuse for him, on everything, particularly over his shitty actions; illegal or not. Maybe you’re right, but that certainly doesn’t make his shit stink any less or mean he doesn’t have to live with the consequences. How is he always the victim?

How far does he have to intentionally push things (illegal or not) for you to put some responsibility on his shoulders?

 

[JohnRoberts]

I don’t understand why you always must use this excuse for him, on everything, particularly over his shitty actions; illegal or not. Maybe you’re right, but that certainly doesn’t make his shit stink any less or mean he doesn’t have to live with the consequences. How is he always the victim?

How far does he have to intentionally push things (illegal or not) for you to put some responsibility on his shoulders?

we are clearly seeing two different movies based on our different personal frames of reference.

I saw ex-president Trump manage a number of accomplishments despite ferocious unfair opposition (and a pandemic).

If you voted against Trump you deserve President Biden, and whomever is behind the curtain now calling the shots. Enjoy.

JR

 

[Gold]

ex-president Trump has been under attack from the deep state since even before he was elected the first time.

He's been under attack by the deep state since 1972 when he was sued by the feds for racial discrimination in housing. It hasn't stopped since. Had to pay $25 million for fraud for Trump U just before he became president. His charity was deemed a fraud. So unfair!

 

[JohnRoberts]

He's been under attack by the deep state since 1972 when he was sued by the feds for racial discrimination in housing. It hasn't stopped since. Had to pay $25 million for fraud for Trump U just before he became president. His charity was deemed a fraud. So unfair!

I apologize for the whatabout... but the Clinton initiative seems to have evaporated since they are no longer in government office.

[edit- what exactly is the Biden family business that has earned them millions of dollars from foreign nationals. /edit]

JR

 

[Gold]

I apologize for the whatabout... but the Clinton initiative seems to have evaporated since they are no longer in government office.

JR

No it hasn't. Jim Jordan just the other day said he'd like to revive it. She hasn't been convicted of anything. All that 'lock her up' stuff was for a misdemeanor charge at best.

 

[JohnRoberts]

No it hasn't. Jim Jordan just the other day said he'd like to revive it. She hasn't been convicted of anything. All that 'lock her up' stuff was for a misdemeanor charge at best.

To quote the Hillary, "at this point what difference does it make". People who rise to her level within government usually get a free pass from prosecution.

I can still remeber when James Comey went on to say that despite some evidence of criminal activity, given all the other factors involved, the FBI would not recommend prosecution for mishandling classified information. In other words, he invoked “prosecutorial discretion”— Law enforcement is a purely executive function, so Congress and the courts cannot command the FBI or Justice Department to move forward.

====

There's the rub... When Hillary was running for president Comey gave her a pass despite evidence of criminal activity. Garland et all seem to be doubling down to do anything they can to keep Trump from running/winning again. Hillary is only worth mentioning for the obvious example of partisan bias and hypocrisy.

Garland has another problem namely if he prosecutes Trump for the secret documents what about all the others? There is some expectation that the DOJ may charge Hunter with some minor beef in Delaware, for appearances so that they can stick a fork in further investigation.

I don't think that would work since people are already pulling on several Hunter threads and cloth is unraveling.

I am lousy at predicting the future so I will try to stop.

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

we are clearly seeing two different movies based on our different personal frames of reference.

I saw ex-president Trump manage a number of accomplishments despite ferocious unfair opposition (and a pandemic).

Maybe so, but still does not dismiss I single iota of his shittiness; some of which he may now have to answer to in criminal court.

And yes, I’d absolutely much rather the status quo than this clown; no matter how much I may or may not think he’s done good for the country.

 

[Recording Engineer]

I can still remeber when James Comey went on to say that despite some evidence of criminal activity, given all the other factors involved, the FBI would not recommend prosecution for mishandling classified information. In other words, he invoked “prosecutorial discretion”

And you don’t think that’s exactly what happened with Mueller and Trump? Seems they got the same treatment there to me!

 

[Matador]

Telling the DOJ to fuck off, then giving his attorneys false statements to put into a signed declaration probably didn't help his case. As another esteemed contributor here on DIY noted:

If we have a systemic problem it is people ignoring police authority...Recovering from wounds that he could have very easily avoided by simply cooperating with the police.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Telling the DOJ to fuck off, then giving his attorneys false statements to put into a signed declaration probably didn't help his case. As another esteemed contributor here on DIY noted:

Right. It’s not the fact that he had government property in the first place, it’s his actions while the government has been trying to get them back… Says all we need to know!

In what Doug Ose presented, it seems to me Bill Clinton knew when to give up pushback, to prevent criminal-troubles, but Trump does not. So be it. Now deal with the consequences. Why should anyone feel sorry for him? He purposely brought all this on himself.

 

[crazydoc]

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/06/trump-indictment.pdf
May be some hidden documents out there.

 

[hodad]

ny is not nearly as safe as it used to be.

Utter tosh.
When's the last time you were in NYC? I was there last fall. Not that scary. Propagandistic fearmongering.

EDIT: I thought about commenting in this thread when it was first posted, but I couldn't see the point. I could already guess at the self-delusion, the whataboutism, the false equivalencies, the misstatements of fact. I've got to say, the usual suspects did not disappoint.