Fake / mislabelled TL071CP

[living sounds]

Bought 20 of these for cheap in dip format from a chinese vendor, TI branded and new. I was lucky not to have things go up in smoke, since as it turns out these are actually dual op amps (no idea which though, guess would be TL072CP).

Now who would fake such a cheap jellybean chip? But I also think a manufacturer like TI has adquate QC...

Anyone had something similar happen to them (not the other way round, expensive chips get faked routinely, of course)?

 

[Rochey]

you buy from a non authorized distributor in china, TI has no way of performing QC on it.

Had they been from Avnet/Arrow/Digikey/Mouser/Farnell etc, you would have been welcome to return the IC's etc.

Now, having said that, I've been bitten too, as the temptation to buy from a third party grey vendor is strong!

 

[living sounds]

you buy from a non authorized distributor in china, TI has no way of performing QC on it.

Had they been from Avnet/Arrow/Digikey/Mouser/Farnell etc, you would have been welcome to return the IC's etc.

Now, having said that, I've been bitten too, as the temptation to buy from a third party grey vendor is strong!

Ordering from any of these in Germany is not much fun (went through this more than once) and especially not for small amounts.

What I'm wondering is why anyone would bother to fake a cheap op amp as this one. If it was manufactured by TI they would test the chip before it leaves the factory I guess.

 

[JohnRoberts]

the temptation to buy from a third party grey vendor is strong!

It isn't that strong... Maybe it's different for cloners, but when I build onesy twosey scratch designs I don't want to have to worry if the parts are good too... it's hard enough to get the design right, I don't need any extra variables to worry about.

FWIW back in the '70s when I was buying the then brand new TL07x, I tested them 100%, even though they were made by TI and purchased from a domestic distributor (maybe even TI back then I don't recall).

The good news is that by the '80s they were solid enough from the factory that I stopped 100% re-testing them.

Also in the kit business it is was useful for me to be able to say to a kit customer that I know the ICs are good before they get them.

JR

 

[living sounds]

Doesn't appear to be a TL072 either, it distorts miserably where a TL072 does reasonably well.

 

[living sounds]

Is there any point in telling TI about this? They could contact ebay to shut down the sale.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Ordering from any of these in Germany is not much fun (went through this more than once) and especially not for small amounts.

What I'm wondering is why anyone would bother to fake a cheap op amp as this one. If it was manufactured by TI they would test the chip before it leaves the factory I guess.

ASSuming they came from TI... In which case they were probably tested at die level.

There are other vendors making inexpensive tl082 knock offs. Rebranding a $0.05 opamp to sell for $0.25 or $0.50 is a good profit margin.

TL071 seems a little more obscure, maybe they are rebranding them to order.  ;D and guessed wrong about the cross.

caveat emptor...

JR

 

[living sounds]

ASSuming they came from TI... In which case they were probably tested at die level.

There are other vendors making inexpensive tl082 knock offs. Rebranding a $0.05 opamp to sell for $0.25 or $0.50 is a good profit margin.

TL071 seems a little more obscure, maybe they are rebranding them to order.  ;D and guessed wrong about the cross.

caveat emptor...

JR

They're selling 10 for $ 1.90, this includes worldwide shipping from China. It's certainly not cost-effective for the retailer, since they will have to refund me via eBay as well as Paypal policies...

 

[Kingston]

I hope a lesson was learned and only a little cash spent. Opamps are delicate enough creatures that the last thing I would want to worry about when testing and using one is whether the contents actually match the label. 

 

[thermionic]

Is there any point in telling TI about this? They could contact ebay to shut down the sale.

You should do. I recently complained to Ebay when I found crude copies of a product I designed. To my amazement (I sent them proof, i.e. the EU design registration link), they stopped the guy... From what I can make out, companies in more profitable industries, i.e. fashion and computing, have legally scalded Ebay of late, so they're pretty quick to react if someone can show breach of IP these days. 

 

[bruce0]

How did you recognize them as fake?

Was it that your tl071 turned out to be a dual opamp?

What did they look like?

Is there any way to tell without finding where they fall down?

Were they FET input?

How did they fall down?

 

[MartyMart]

I got bitten some while ago by the "cheap Chinese Ebay" temptation.
I have used them a few times for lamps/LED's etc and that was fine.

For parts, if not using farnell / RS / Reichelt / Musikding then I use a few US ebayers like 6K8 and DIY4Parts
I also use www.smallbearelec.com
Never had any issues with these sellers / retailers.

M.

 

[Rochey]

Regarding informing TI of a source of fake goods in China. I'm not sure how much can be done, for such small volume. As a corporation, I think they only panic when reels of parts of being sent to larger-than-hobbyist volume customers.
I think the best course of action is to report it to eBay. They can shut down that vendor much quicker.

I did a little googling on TI's policies and suggestions... here's what i could find:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-news/4316490/Chip-makers-step-up-anti-counterfeiting-efforts

http://e2e.ti.com/group/helpcentral/f/301/t/113197.aspx

Counterfeit parts are becoming more prevalent in our industry. These parts cause problems from production shutdown to product failure. In addition, purchasing from non-authorized distributors or brokers will lead to a loss of warranty and product support.

The best way to receive genuine parts with full warranty coverage and have access to after-sales support is to purchase only through TI Authorized Semiconductor Distributors. Discontinued or obsolete TI products should be purchased exclusively from Rochester Electronics.

(From: http://www.ti.com/general/docs/gencontent.tsp?contentId=66266)


...

And here's my horror story. After designing the Eden Mic Pre, I decided to buy some INA163 Mic Pre IC's from one of my suppliers in China, as the price was lower than a US disty. I wanted to feel "legit" and not use the sample program. We had MASSIVE yield issues with the China-Supplied INA163's. I'm not sure if it was a moisture issue, or static issue, or if they were parts that were supposed to be scrapped that never made it... I do know that I was more or less a few hundred dollars out, and a lot of effort.

Lesson learnt is that the vendors I've used are reliable for commodity passives and connectors etc, but I would always ask for samples of an IC before ordering quantity from them. I'll also add that any parts I expect to use as part of my audio signal path will be sourced in the US. The audio signal path is way to sensitive for slightly out of spec parts etc.

/r

 

[Mr. Snoid]

Read the news today... we're talking about a country that rebrands rat, fox and mink meat as lamb and gets away with it for way too long. And after the many deaths of dogs from eating Chinese jerky treats, I will go out of my way to NOT buy anything Chinese (if I can help it.) Or how about killing hundreds of babies by adding melamine to powdered milk to boost the protein "content count"! There seems to be no incentive for many of these people to even try to be honest. And the government could care less (although they did execute a few people over the powdered milk fiasco.)

Christ!

Tod

 

[bruce0]

...anything Chinese (if I can help it.) Or how about killing hundreds of babies by adding melamine to powdered milk to boost the protein "content count"! There seems to be no incentive for many of these people to even try to be honest. And the government could care less (although they did execute a few people over the powdered milk fiasco.)

Sadly... If execution is an incentive ever, it isn't an incentive when those executed have nothing to do with the crime. The problem with a police state and a no "rule of law" is that the THD + Noise exceeds the signal, and incentives are distorted.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Read the news today... we're talking about a country that rebrands rat, fox and mink meat as lamb and gets away with it for way too long. And after the many deaths of dogs from eating Chinese jerky treats, I will go out of my way to NOT buy anything Chinese (if I can help it.) Or how about killing hundreds of babies by adding melamine to powdered milk to boost the protein "content count"! There seems to be no incentive for many of these people to even try to be honest. And the government could care less (although they did execute a few people over the powdered milk fiasco.)

Christ!

Tod

It can be hard to identify with the near complete lack of empathy for their fellow man (and woman and children), but it is part of their culture and ingrained. Their practice of gift giving, is typically not in appreciation for past kindness but on account to create a debt so they can expect some future reciprocation.

Empathy and altruism seem useful evolutionary traits in a hunter gatherer society, but in an over populated resource scarce environment the quid pro quo of buying future support might have  provided survival benefit.  or not.

JR 

 

[living sounds]

How did you recognize them as fake?

Was it that your tl071 turned out to be a dual opamp?

What did they look like?

Is there any way to tell without finding where they fall down?

Were they FET input?

How did they fall down?

They were not passing audio in a place where a single op amp would do that. I tried a few, then realized it started to get a little hot, and tried them in the position of a dual op amp - worked.

They look like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290819510359

Exactly the same production code, too.

They distort very easily but did not appear to oscillate where faster op amps do. I have no idea what exactly they are, of course.

 

[tv]

...
They distort very easily but did not appear to oscillate where faster op amps do. I have no idea what exactly they are, of course.
...

Perhaps something along the lines of LM358 (a "dual" 324) ?

Iirc they have darlington inputs so they may "look" similar to fet inputs impedance-wise.

Because of their weird outputs, they like to distort audio if not additionally loaded to V-

If this is "it", a dual chip would suck something like 1-1,5mA quiesc. curr.

 

[Gustav]

IF

Fake Opamps from a chinese seller on ebay...

THEN

It can be hard to identify with the near complete lack of empathy for their fellow man (and woman and children), but it is part of their culture and ingrained.

???

Gustav

 

[millzners]

Read the news today... we're talking about a country that rebrands rat, fox and mink meat as lamb and gets away with it for way too long. And after the many deaths of dogs from eating Chinese jerky treats, I will go out of my way to NOT buy anything Chinese (if I can help it.) Or how about killing hundreds of babies by adding melamine to powdered milk to boost the protein "content count"! There seems to be no incentive for many of these people to even try to be honest. And the government could care less (although they did execute a few people over the powdered milk fiasco.)

Christ!

Tod

I agree with you that there are serious problems in China with regard to the products that make it to market and are apparently poisonous/dangerous/fake.  I also avoid Chinese products especially for things related to food/cookware.  But on the flip side I do business with a "cheap Chinese factory" daily for my day job and they are always helpful, friendly, and responsive.  I think it's worth saying that in my experience there are some very hardworking and responsible people there even though there is little incentive for them to be that way.