France tries to introduces law preventing police being filmed

[Tubetec]

The French parliment has proposed a law preventing members of the public filming police , bringing totalitarianism one step closer .

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/politics/1319690-french-parliament-votes-through-law-that-curbs-identifying-police

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Yes I saw the images of the protests in France against the new law.

From the article you linked:

"Under the plans, anyone convicted of circulating a police officer's image with the intention of seeing them harmed could be jailed for a year and fined 45,000 euros..."

That bit sounds reasonable to me. Vigilante justice is never good. 
But surely, the act of filming the police will not then, in itself, be a crime.
In fact, should a police officer be doxxed at home or threatened with violence, it may very well be that the person who filmed that officer and then posted it online doesn't have any intention other than highlighting something for public attention. But that it is others (possibly very many others) who may then circulate the footage with intention of harm.

I don't know enough details but it sounds messy or somewhat ill-conceived. 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Just to clarify my position on filming police:

If the police are not doing anything wrong, why should it be a problem if the public film them?
I can see a couple of valid reasons not to film such as, a sensitive crime scene whereby leaking information could harm an investigation.  Or, say, it would be disrespectful to a victim of a crime or be upsetting for a victim's family etc.

But many abuses by police have only recently been highlighted due to the prevalence of cell-phone cameras.

Beyond the police, I've supported this charity https://www.witness.org/  in the past which helps folks around the world video document human rights crimes.

 

[gyraf]

Otoh, traditionally the french has over and over again proved to be a nasty bunch to govern - perhaps these measures are needed to keep them in line?






;D

 

[analag]

I saw the vid with those nazi bastards beating the black man

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I saw the vid with those nazi bastards beaten the black man

Not sure which video you mean but, that fucking shit has been happening since forever, in lots of countries.  It's only because of video and cell phone footage that the motherfuckers are now getting caught in the act.

I'm gonna leave Jakob's comment alone, I think Abbey might have a word to say about that. .

 

[Tubetec]

Thats a fair point about vigilantism, but then again the police might film, picture or biometrically process your data illegaly ,without your knowledge even though your doing nothing wrong .If their own cameras happen to catch them doing something wrong Ive heard of cases where footage vanishes or never existed in the first place. Ive also heard of cases where someone who pretended to film what looked like a case of police brutality ,were themselves set upon ,got the pi55 slapped out of them ,were hauled off to the cells and had their mobile phone taken by the cops for examination , it was only after they reported the phone stolen did they get it back.

Ok I may have used the French example as it was topical ,but we should consider how covid fear has allowed a raft of very draconian laws to be brought in under public health/safety in our own back yards as well.

David.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

If their own cameras happen to catch them doing something wrong Ive heard of cases where footage vanishes or never existed in the first place. 

That seems to happen frequently.  Or they "forgot" to turn the camera on.

 

[user 37518]

1984, anyone? anyone?

 

[Tubetec]

Science fiction becomes science fact ,
Look at Nic Tesla , Aurthur C Clarke ,Star Trek .......

 

[JohnRoberts]

sunlight is the best disinfectant... turn on the lights and the cockroaches scatter.

JR

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Due to public and  journalistic pressure etc., I see the law is now going to be completely rewritten.

 

[gyraf]

..darn, next time they'll need to be quicker, what a waste of a perfectly good terror attack..!












;D

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Damn man, you're cold!




  ;D

 

[Tubetec]

Lawmaking via knee-jerk reaction leads to bad laws that often prove unworkable/unpoliceable.
I guess this shows the French system can work in the favour of the dog in the street.
Now lets wait while every other banana republic tries to bring in similar out of proportion laws while failing to address the underlying issues of how police forces themselves misuse the technology.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Government legislators are supposed to be the adults, not swayed by the mob's emotional will.

The behavior they are trying to stop appears to be "doxing" police officers to encourage personal attacks and harm. This is a new strategy used by the anarchists to deter people from serving as police officers. Less police gives them free run of the streets. Lots of police are retiring early due to lack of support from their leaders. I applaud this apparent attempt to support them however ham handed.

I have long argued that the police are in the vast majority the good guys preserving individual safety and civil order. Who benefits from weakened police? (Rhetorical... the bad actors benefit).

JR

 

[FarisElek]

Government legislators are supposed to be the adults, not swayed by the mob's emotional will.

The behavior they are trying to stop appears to be "doxing" police officers to encourage personal attacks and harm. This is a new strategy used by the anarchists to deter people from serving as police officers. Less police gives them free run of the streets. Lots of police are retiring early due to lack of support from their leaders. I applaud this apparent attempt to support them however ham handed.

I have long argued that the police are in the vast majority the good guys preserving individual safety and civil order. Who benefits from weakened police? (Rhetorical... the bad actors benefit).

JR

Not the extreme rich, thats for sure....

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not the extreme rich, thats for sure....

Actually the rich can afford private security, the poor suffer far worse from a break down in public order.

JR

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Yes I saw the images of the protests in France against the new law.

From the article you linked:

"Under the plans, anyone convicted of circulating a police officer's image with the intention of seeing them harmed could be jailed for a year and fined 45,000 euros..."

That bit sounds reasonable to me. Vigilante justice is never good. 
But surely, the act of filming the police will not then, in itself, be a crime.
In fact, should a police officer be doxxed at home or threatened with violence, it may very well be that the person who filmed that officer and then posted it online doesn't have any intention other than highlighting something for public attention. But that it is others (possibly very many others) who may then circulate the footage with intention of harm.

I don't know enough details but it sounds messy or somewhat ill-conceived.

Indeed. the problem is there is already a law that covers this issue. But some police unions, because of a large increase of cases, and no judicial action, have tried to make the basic fact of taking pictures or films of police illegal. Just another case of creating a liberticidal law because the relevant law has not been applied. I don't think this law has any chance to be passed, since there is a resounding case where three police officers have been caught by a surveillance camera beating an innocent guy.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

That seems to happen frequently.  Or they "forgot" to turn the camera on.

National police don't have cameras. Some municipal police have them. All those who have them see only advantages (the people questioned, when they know they are being filmed, behave less aggressively), but the cameras are not always on (for some reason, the autonomy is about a couple of hours...), so that won't solve the issue of a malevolent copper that will not turn on his camera when proceeding to his dirty deeds.