G7's and dual micpre (pics and soundclips inside)

[Black Dog]

[quote author="Purusha"]Lucky man!!! :green: [/quote]

I agree :thumb:

[quote author="Purusha"]Next thing would be the sound samples :wink:[/quote]

Ok, sure - here is a report from a small listening-session held today at Feedback's Studio1 where we testet my G7 on piano, guitar and vocal.
The reference was a Neumann U47 which most people know and like..

First up is the piano -->

G7 -> Neumann PV76 -> Protools HD @ 24/88:
http://www.tunetown.dk/lars/piano_g7.wav

U47 -> Neumann PV76 -> Protools HD @ 24/88:
http://www.tunetown.dk/lars/piano_47.wav

Next up is the acustic guitar -->

G7 -> Neumann PV76 -> Protools HD @ 24/88:
http://www.tunetown.dk/lars/guitar_g7.wav

U47 -> Neumann PV76 -> Protools HD @ 24/88:
http://www.tunetown.dk/lars/guitar_47.wav

Last but not least the vocal -->

G7 -> Neumann PV76 -> Protools HD @ 24/88:
http://www.tunetown.dk/lars/vocal_g7.wav

U47 -> Neumann PV76 -> Protools HD @ 24/88:
http://www.tunetown.dk/lars/vocal_47.wav

Listenening to the recorded tracks -->

Cheers :guinness:

Lars :thumb:

 

[burdij]

Any idea where one can get the Windows Media Player PCM Format(1) codec?

The problem appears to be my retarded hardware which doesn't support 88KHz 24Bit files. Would it be possible to post your samples in a more tranditional format?

 

[MATTI]

This might be of help
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=lQNJbzoBp3k=

Matti

 

[BackHand]

Thanks for the test! Really really great!
I think that the G7 has a little mor upper midd and uper high end top. It's a little bit sharper.
This gives the U47 a little softer and rounder sound...but just a little little bit...the overall tonal quality is very very close and Iäm not sure witch one :razz:

Is it a lundahl in the G7 mic or what did you use?

 

[burdij]

Thanks MATTI, the converter worked well.

Thanks BlackDog for the samples. They point out some interesting differences between the two mikes.

One criteria that I have been developing for evaluating microphones is the amount of low level detail present during high level program. That is, the traces of resonances, overtones, and noise during the presentation of the louder fundamental wave. This is difficult to perceive using speakers, a little better using headphones. It is also limited by the recovery of low level detail through the recording chain as it is dependant on sampling resolution. More bits allow more low level detail recovery and less Poisson distribution noise. Amplifiers, particularly power amplifiers, tend to mangle this low level recovery since most do not render the low voltage detail accurately due to operating outside of Class A because of crossover distortion and other factors.

In your recordings, I noticed that the recovery is not as good on the G7 as it is on the Neumann (and, I've noticed this, on all the other Neumanns I have heard, even the crappy TLM103 I own).

There are three factors (at least) that control this. The capsule geometry is one. There is a substantial difference between a Neumann style capsule and an AKG style capsule. The AKG design has always, I think, been thought of as "brighter". Some people perceive this brightness as being more "airy" at the expense of acoustic accuracy.

The second major factor is the signal chain component selection. I have found that careful selection of components has the ability to dramatically improve the operation of a preamp circuit. Such factors as selecting an audiophile grade capacitor to couple the tube to the output transformer in a tube mike and proper termination and loading of the microphone by the preamp improve the low level recovery. Often problems occur because the mike is loaded too heavily by the preamp.

The third factor is the shape of the head grille. The cylindrical grilles have odd resonances and standing waves in the critical 5-8 KHz range (wavelength of 2.70 to 1.7 inches) and small changes in the mechanical configuration are very noticable acoustically.

I need to listen to these samples through speakers to see if these observations need revision. All in all, though, this microphone performs remarkably well against its competition.

 

[gyraf]

Just had a quick test with a Bruel&Kjaer inside the IOAudio G7-housing (the one used here), and I didn't find any noticable resonances at all in the upper half of the "cage".

There may or may not have been a slight low-freq resonance in the lower half of the cage (I'm not all sure, was not a through test). Used silicone-blocked passage to the electronics-compartment just below the cage, so that's not causing it. Same findings with my own old primitive housings. Tested referring to second B&K outside the cage - but without G7 capsule mounted inside cage.

Concluded that what you hear in the above tests must be mainly the capsule-and-electronic difference, at least not much of an influence from local micro-acoustics.

Will probably do extensive tests at a later time.

Jakob E.

 

[Gus]

burdij

maybe you are hearing the soundking capsule it is NOT a ck12 like, it is a 67 dual backplate (someone took one apart and posted pictures here). type edge terminated.

look around the metas
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=6804&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I have a MBHO capsule like a real brass CK12 it has lots of detail. I also have a few other mircophones and capsules

 

[Luny Tune]

This G7 sounds amazing! I would choose it over the U47 for guitars and vocals any day!

NICE work, Black Dog! And what a great project, Jakob!

I can't hear any flaws anywhere and I think it has a much more modern sound than the U47. In this little test, which was done in one of Denmark's finest studios I might add, I think the only reason why I would choose the U47 for the piano is that the piano has some harshness in it's high mids that the U47 doesn't translate well so to speak. But to me that's not something I can hold against this G7 at all.

The U47 in my ears is a little scooped in that upper mid area and has a potbelly too. I immediately feel an urge to eq on it. (The same urge I feel when working with a U87 by the way.) It is of course also a matter of taste and style but this G7 just fits my taste and style perfectly.

Did you really need to go into that size of detail to tell the difference between the mics, burdij? You say that low level recovery is not as good on the G7 as it is on the Neumann. Even on your TLM103... The quality of the TLM103 is no where near this G7 so how's that a negative thing for the G7? Could it be, that the Neumann's low level recovering abilities are "too good"?

I don't know anything about low level recovery. I just know what I like when I hear it.

My criterias for evaluating microphones is to open the channel, listen and decide if what I hear is pleasing to my ears and how the signal will blend into a mix. Here at Tune Town the G7 was the big winner and I honestly fear for my U195 a little. This G7 has a lot of the qualities that I love about the U195 and one thing it has in common with the U47 is that it sits amazingly well in the speakers. While I felt an urge to eq on the Neumann I wouldn't touch the G7 when tracking.

I honestly think the U47 is a fantastic companion to a good 2" tape, but this G7 is dead on target for more modern applications.

I can imagine that a singer with harsh and whisteling S'es will need a de-esser after this G7 and not after the U47, but still there's the scooped high mid and the too-thick-to-my-likings low mids that bugs me about that mic...so I would still end up using this G7.

They can keep the U47. I'm gonna build myself a G7! SOON! :razz:

 

[skipwave]

Black Dog,

Where did you get that shockmount from? I just got my ioaudio housing today, and I'm so excited.

Thanks!

 

[Black Dog]

[quote author="BackHand"]Is it a lundahl in the G7 mic or what did you use?[/quote]

I used a Beyer TR/BV 310-210-005 from Kubi's last groupbuy.

[quote author="skipwave"]Black Dog,

Where did you get that shockmount from?[/quote]

As a replacement for the shockmount that comes with ADK 51-series mic's..

Cheers :thumb:

Lars

 

[Black Dog]

Dear friends,

I think we have found the golden sound -->

:razz:

Many thanks to Gustav, for the bling-bling treatment :guinness:

Cheers :thumb:

Lars

 

[BackHand]

Anyone who has testet the G7 with a lundahl and the dale capsule against a U47? I've built three of them but got no U47 :roll:??

 

[Black Dog]

[quote author="BackHand"]Anyone who has testet the G7 with a lundahl and the dale capsule against a U47? I've built three of them but got no U47 :roll:??[/quote]

Yes - my G7's(pictured above) currently have M7 capsules from Dale and Lundahl's and we have two U47's here at Feedback as well.
They all sound great and get a lot of use, but they don't sound much alike..

Cheers :guinness:

Lars

 

[BackHand]

[quote author="Black Dog"][quote author="BackHand"]Anyone who has testet the G7 with a lundahl and the dale capsule against a U47? I've built three of them but got no U47 :roll:??[/quote]

Yes - my G7's(pictured above) currently have M7 capsules from Dale and Lundahl's and we have two U47's here at Feedback as well.
They all sound great and get a lot of use, but they don't sound much alike..

Cheers :guinness:

Lars[/quote]

Ah..they don't? How do they differ? Thanks!

 

[Black Dog]

Well, there are some similarities because the same type of capsule is used, but over all no.
It's hard to describe the difference, but imo the G7 sounds more like a Brauner than a U47 if that's any help..

Lars

 

[BackHand]

[quote author="Black Dog"]Well, there are some similarities because the same type of capsule is used, but over all no.
It's hard to describe the difference, but imo the G7 sounds more like a Brauner than a U47 if that's any help..

Lars[/quote]

Okay...sharper och faster?

What quality compared to other microphones would you place the G7 at?
When do you use and when do you not use the G7?
What do you personally think of the G7?

Great with someone else's experience :grin: !

 

[vertiges]

I'm jalous... :evil:

eD)))

 

[ognam2]

nice shiny look....
what are you building with the PCBs in behind on your desk (photo above)? A new type of filter?
I´m just building two G7´s as well... also the capsule decision is hard to me.
I think I´ll get the dale capsules too, because everybody seems to be happy with them. Also thought about to buy two of the PVC ones with the M7Groupbuy, but they are so expensive... what would you do if you would build two more G7´s now?

thanx Jonas

 

[BackHand]

[quote author="BackHand"][quote author="Black Dog"]Well, there are some similarities because the same type of capsule is used, but over all no.
It's hard to describe the difference, but imo the G7 sounds more like a Brauner than a U47 if that's any help..

Lars[/quote]

Okay...sharper och faster?

What quality compared to other microphones would you place the G7 at?
When do you use and when do you not use the G7?
What do you personally think of the G7?

Great with someone else's experience :grin: ![/quote]

Black Dog? I'm so curious!
One more. What microphones have you compared it to?

 

[Black Dog]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay in responding - it's been a busy week..

I think the G7 is a wonderful piece of kit and it's as good as any mic I've tried.
I use the G7 when it's the best microphone for the job - it could be anywhere a LDC is desired.
Some of our microphones are listed on www.feedback.dk if you want an impression of what else I have at hand when tracking..

The perfboard in the picture is for a passive eq I'm still fiddling with.

Cheers :guinness:

Lars