Getting the right components for a mic build.

[nelly]

I'm not an electronics engineer, a mere guitarist. Been looking into Gyraf Mic (Can't afford old C12!!) There is a list the required components ,but it seems,after reading dozens of threads,the components can vary in price( for same spec) but different quality.
Looking for top grade components,but which ones and from where?

E.g I read a thread about guy who bought pcb mount transformer,instead of a"wired" one !!

I don't want to order load of bits ,to find out there wrong, PCB or Normal ????  What do I ask for?
Seen threads on few topics, PSU which caps,which valves,but general components I don't know

I'm trying build a special mic...ordered a Tim Campbell capsule. Not gonna build it, as not got skills(Unfortunately,though could do all soldering!!) But I do Have to order the parts myself, otherwise cost to much....and might as well get S/H built mic rather than kit.....Which would be a shame. Up for learning anyway.
Can you guys help?

Nelly Slide

 

[Pip]

I'm not an electronics engineer, a mere guitarist. Been looking into Gyraf Mic (Can't afford old C12!!) There is a list the required components ,but it seems,after reading dozens of threads,the components can vary in price( for same spec) but different quality.
Looking for top grade components,but which ones and from where?

E.g I read a thread about guy who bought pcb mount transformer,instead of a"wired" one !!

I don't want to order load of bits ,to find out there wrong, PCB or Normal ????  What do I ask for?
Seen threads on few topics, PSU which caps,which valves,but general components I don't know

I'm trying build a special mic...ordered a Tim Campbell capsule. Not gonna build it, as not got skills(Unfortunately,though could do all soldering!!) But I do Have to order the parts myself, otherwise cost to much....and might as well get S/H built mic rather than kit.....Which would be a shame. Up for learning anyway.
Can you guys help?

Nelly Slide

Where are you USA, EU etc.... I would just start buying parts one of the awesome thing about DIY is the parts game. As to the buying more parts then you use. I don't know what to say I have literally drawers of parts that I decided to use something else or it turned out that I had one already. Also with any tube mic buy more than one tube and test and burn in until you find the one that sounds the quietest and the best. Or buy a tube from someone that does that for you in advance. DIY is the Rabbit Hole and that is all there is to it.

 

[ln76d]

You are asking a lot of question, concerning one topic, but truly  about nothing

Stick to one topic.

If you "can't afford old C12" make new C12.
There's kit for it, with all the instructions etc.
Buy Haufe T14/1 transformer. Banzai - member here - sell them some time ago or you can buy it directly from Haufe.
If you want to stay with G7, first - what body you want to use for that microphone?
PCB or PTP?
At the end of the week there will be another project finished, related to G7 and should fit G7 PCB after little modifications.
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=62441.0
There will be also sound samples

Here's my opinion about the parts:
After some  builds and modifications of different tube microphones:
MKP even those really pricey doesn't sound good as output capacitor.
The best what i have found are MP capacitors for the output!
Lower capacitances at the output improve the sound quality in whole spectrum.
For G7, when good optimized - 0.5uF is enough!
Boutique resistors like Dale sounds exactly the same as chinese metal resistors!
They can be lower noise, but i don't hear the difference or coudn't measure difference.
For tube microphones the best resistors i ever had are carbon and wirewound Beyschlag which were used in most of German and Austrian classic microphones - here  i can hear the difference!
Most important are plate resistors and cathode resistor!
Carbon composite aren't best option for tube microphones!

 

[nelly]

Buy Haufe T14/1 transformer. Banzai - member here - sell them some time ago or you can buy it directly from Haufe.
If you want to stay with G7, first - what body you want to use for that microphone?
PCB or PTP? quote]

Thanx this is excellent info,this is exactly  what I meant,recommendations of good parts.  caps resisters.etc
Definately PCB...Trying to keep it simple as possible!!      Then  I may even do soldering part myself  ( I will enjoy doing it)

The Body- Chunger's.Budget C12- Alctron HT-11A Tube Microphone Body/head Kit with PSU  (may get body power coated)

Transformer- Haufe t14 ,is this same spec as Lindahl, but better sound?

Which Valve-  on Grp DIY,told  that a E80F  is better than  EF86  see thread: http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=62344.0

Read many threads and G7 builds,over past few weeks...trying to learn.

All suggestions appreciated  ??  ...I'm a novice, but keen to explore n learn ,in this world of modding !!!

Thanx all

 

[ln76d]

T14/1 is the original transformer for C12 if you want to go for C12 build, not G7.
If you want to buy body from Chunger, he also have PCB/Turret board for C12.
Since you want to use Tim Campbell capsule i think that only thing which left is to buy T14/1 and make C12 circuit.
It's easier to build than G7 in my opinion.

 

[nelly]

T14/1 is the original transformer for C12 if you want to go for C12 build, not G7.
If you want to buy body from Chunger, he also have PCB/Turret board for C12.
Since you want to use Tim Campbell capsule i think that only thing which left is to buy T14/1 and make C12 circuit.
It's easier to build than G7 in my opinion.

I thought the G7 was a C12 type....Oh Dear....Yes,I have a CT 12 on order from Tim....because  1. Live In UK.  2. Heard nothing but praise on this capsule.
My original idea was get a 414 modded....now after,6 weeks of reading, mod n DIY posts  ,I'm here, and by the sounds of it,I still don't know my arse from my elbow 
So you would recommend just buy the C12 circuit kit whole ?  Seen Fox kit looks good  or chungers.

Chunger had a Total C12 kit ,Sold out. I did see this option, but thought better results would be achieved following Gyraf instructions

Now I really confused...Whats most sensible route?  Sorry for my lack of knowledge. A C12 Build would be great.

 

[micaddict]

The early C12 didn't have the Haufe, but a bigger tranny.  This will give you an extra octave or so down below, which can be useful if you want it to be an instrument mic mostly. Ami/TAB sells a copy.
Marik (Samar Audio) sells an even bigger one.

Is the matachung C12 kit sold out for a longer time? Have you asked?

If the mic is mainly for vocal duties, there's a good chance you'll actually prefer the Ela M251.
http://www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com/D-251.html

 

[ln76d]

T14/1 is the original transformer for C12 if you want to go for C12 build, not G7.
If you want to buy body from Chunger, he also have PCB/Turret board for C12.
Since you want to use Tim Campbell capsule i think that only thing which left is to buy T14/1 and make C12 circuit.
It's easier to build than G7 in my opinion.

I thought the G7 was a C12 type....Oh Dear....Yes,I have a CT 12 on order from Tim....because  1. Live In UK.  2. Heard nothing but praise on this capsule.
My original idea was get a 414 modded....now after,6 weeks of reading, mod n DIY posts  ,I'm here, and by the sounds of it,I still don't know my arse from my elbow 
So you would recommend just buy the C12 circuit kit whole ?  Seen Fox kit looks good  or chungers.

Chunger had a Total C12 kit ,Sold out. I did see this option, but thought better results would be achieved following Gyraf instructions

Now I really confused...Whats most sensible route?  Sorry for my lack of knowledge. A C12 Build would be great.

G7 is a completely different microphone. It's great project of course but if you already decided to buy Tim capsule i thi.nk the best option should be C12 circuit.

I would go for PCB set + body kit only and manage parts as close *** possible to the original circuit.
If you will need some help to find the parts send me your email on PM.

 

[ln76d]

Thye early C12 didn't have the Haufe, but a bigger tranny.  This will give you an extra octave or so down below, which can be useful if you want it to be an instrument mic mostly. Ami/TAB sells a copy.
Marik (Samar Audio) sells an even bigger one.

Is the matachung C12 kit sold out for a longer time? Have you asked?

If the mic is mainly for vocal duties, there's a good chance you'll actually prefer the Ela M251.
http://www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com/D-251.html

For Hiller T14 - i didn't found any picture of C12 which used T14. I didn't found any picture of Hiller T14 (maybe one but i'm not sure is it really this transformer). If this transformer was ever used in C12 - probably on a really few pcs.
Please remember that there were also Henry Radio  transformer and Siemens V2148 - which the last was used mostly before T14/1.  From what i remember (if correct) Klaus write somewhere that only 200pcs (serial number) had different transformer before Haufe T14/1
I know that models with serial number after "240" had also V2148. Even if there was 500pcs before T14/1, it  mean totally nothing.
Most of opinions is that the Haufe was the best improvement of C12 microphone - and this is the most known C12 sound!
Haufe still make this transformer and even if the opinions are that it's little bit different than vintage (yes i will measure ratios someday) - this is still original transformer. During C12 production T14/1 was changed at least two times
For AMI - this is US manufacturer which make great transformers - but is there anyone who compared their T14 to the Hiller version?
If i can buy original part - am buying original part.
I don't believe in all those stories about vintage laminations and other bulls*it which only boost sales.
Even if transformer is really good, it's not original manufacturer and not original part.
BTW T14/1 isn't so excellent transformer and this is maybe its secret

 

[micaddict]

Correct. "Clone"and "copy" have  been a diluted terms for a long time. Only the original thing is original, obviously.
But that wasn't my point so much.

I know about the Henry Radio, but I mentioned the Hiller, 'cause that's what AMI does. I didn't want to make it more complicated for the OP.
Both preceeded the Haufe AFAIK.

Of course the Haufe is the best known C12 sound. Many more were made.

Before you ask me if I've heard them all side by side, I haven't. 

 

[ln76d]

Me also I heard with T14/1 and with V2148 but never compared 1:1.
Impression was that with T14/1 sound a lot better in the hi freq range  but this wasn't  comparison (completely different time of use both) and what most important - capsule condition and revision!
Once i bought AMI T14 but it never came - some f**ker stole it during shipping - so i gave up with AMI - becuse double the price for comparison only doesn't have any sense

 

[micaddict]

The Haufe is far from perfect, but  imperfections can/will add character.

Also, it's pretty small. As a rule, I'm more a fan of the big boys, but ...
Edge terminated large diaphragm capsules have ample top and bottom, but they can lack a little in the mids. So for instance a tranny that sounds a bit middy (or one that mostly rolls off  the lows) can nicely complement an edge terminated LD capsule.
It'the sum of the parts that matters and you seem to understand that well.

Here's an interesting older thread.
Look at the HUGE Samar tranny next to the AMI T14.
The Haufe is not in the picture, but that would be the real dwarf.
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=58091.0

 

[ln76d]

I love colorfull microphones - i'm totally against making (or "improving") each microphone with boutique metal film resistors, polypropylene "audiophile market" capacitors, 1G resistors on the grid,  super ultra clean transformers etc.
Cheaper would be use measurement microphones to get total sterylisation! That's also why i truly love dynamic "coil" microphones
Yes, Samar is pretty big
Probably everyone knows that picture - perfectly it shows difference in size between T14/1 and V2148

http://www.saturn-sound.com/images%20-%20microphones/akg%20c12%20transformer%20types.jpg

I really like small transformers as also big ones. Each have it own features.
I like Beyer and these are tiny as hell. In comparison T14/1 looks like big tranny

 

[nelly]

Is the matachung C12 kit sold out for a longer time? Have you asked?

If the mic is mainly for vocal duties, there's a good chance you'll actually prefer the Ela M251.
http://www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com/D-251.html

ThanKs for your transformer tips,
I'm a fan of larger transformers ,(build a Power amp before,years ago) will the" Marik (Samar Audio)  bigger one"
Will it still fit in the C12 clone Body?

I contacted Chunger about C12 kit earlier ,asking when in stock."-  2- 3 weeks +

Thanx for the link from 'Mic addict'...Vintagemicpcb, a GREAT SITE..: Components ordered in a list, ,full step by step, photo's+instructions ... I could easily follow ,I have enough skills just !! Even to do testing myself! 

Also seen MicandMod Has anyone heard the MicandMod mic's, do they sound in same league, as a top Valve Mic ?

 

[micaddict]

LOL I think I only wrote half of that quote.

Anyway, MicandMod is in Europe which may seem an advantage for you.
But they're not particularly liked by most members of this forum.
Should you really need to know why, you can use our search engine.

Better buy from North America (or Austria). Yes, those guys have good support and step-by-step guides.
Like I've said before, I believe you can build (kit) microphones yourself. Soldering is no problem for you (plus you once built a power amp) and the dedicated build threads here are great. You can ask questions as you go. Do start with a FET mic.

As for transformers, the Samar barely fits the HT-11a (C12 style) body. OPR used it, but in a point-to-point build. For the PCBs in the kits I'd "just" go with the recommended AMI or Cinemag. They're fine. Some will actually prefer them.
Save the big trannies and point-to-point builds for later, when you've really caught the bug. 

 

[nelly]

Thanx for all your great advice.

The early C12 had a bigger tranny. Give an extra octave or so down below, Ami/TAB sells a copy.  Marik (Samar Audio) sells an even bigger one.a good chance you'll actually prefer the Ela M251.
As for transformers, the Samar barely fits the HT-11a (C12 style) body. OPR used it, but in a point-to-point build. Save the big trannies and point-to-point builds for later, when you've really caught the bug

 

Its to late, I'm infected already,been bitten by the bug.
Large is good,  I looked on Samar site,but which one do I buy?

PCB or PTP?

I read this and had to find out what PTP even meant !!  and that got me thinking and learning more about builds.
Now I understand,and when I found this post,on C12/251 OPR acrylic PTP build.That was it.Actually looks easier than PCB Build. I good with drills/lathe/metalwork.Right up my street. All PTP,  I love it.  So its looking like 251 build after all,told they have better low end.
After all, I want to build 1 excellent mic-hence Campbell CT12.(his famous last words...my first of many)

So Samar looks like the one. Alctron body n PSU. Now gotta get acrylic kit...not  listed on his website,will try contacting OPR by email and thru here on  DIY. An easy to follow guide,photo's,can't wait to get building my first mic.

 

[AusTex64]

FWIW, AMI sells a great kit with power supply, tag boards, transformer, metalwork, everything. Excellent quality.

If no one has mentioned it yet, keeping everything really clean is important. You can end up with funky spits and sizzles with dirty high impedance parts. Skin oil is the usual culprit. Having some isopropyl alcohol around for cleaning is handy. Also, silver coated 28AWG teflon coated wire is very useful for mic builds. You can find kits with 10 feet in several colors on eBay. A proper wire stripper for that stuff is a must. I like to use silver solder with silver coated wire. Clear E6000 is a great adhesive, avoid silicone adhesives. They are conductive a high impedance. Hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[micaddict]

Wow! 

Yeah, you've caught the bug alright.  ;D

Point-to-point Ela M for your first build, huh? 
Yeah, why not go straight for the jackpot.  8)

Well, the boards are a great help, of course.
It won't look messy, like some PTP builds do.

Hey, but do realize you'll be dealing with lethal voltages, especially if you'll be making the PSU, too.
I was the one who said you could build your own mic, so I feel some responsibilty there.

I didn't know OPR still had them or I would have pointed that out. 
He also had the C12, which is the Ela M's mother.
Will yours be a singer's microphone mostly or an allround instrumental mic?

Oh, and do stay in contact with Spence.
You guys are in the same country and it seems to me you have more things in common.

 

[ln76d]

Thanx for all your great advice.

The early C12 had a bigger tranny. Give an extra octave or so down below, Ami/TAB sells a copy.  Marik (Samar Audio) sells an even bigger one.a good chance you'll actually prefer the Ela M251.

Its to late, I'm infected already,been bitten by the bug.
Large is good,  I looked on Samar site,but which one do I buy?

PCB or PTP?

I read this and had to find out what PTP even meant !!  and that got me thinking and learning more about builds. Now I understand,and when I found this post,on C12/251 OPR acrylic PTP build.That was it.Actually looks easier than PCB Build. I good with drills/lathe/metalwork.Right up my street. All PTP,  I love it.  So its looking like 251 build after all,told they have better low end.
After all, I want to build 1 excellent mic-hence Campbell CT12.(his famous last words...my first of many)

So Samar looks like the one. Alctron body n PSU. Now gotta get acrylic kit...not  listed on his website,will try contacting OPR by email and thru here on  DIY. An easy to follow guide,photo's,can't wait to get building my first mic.

You can easliy make your own PTP board.
There's a lot of reasons why PTP is better than PCB.
Textolit is really great metarial and easy to work with.
Want Ela M? Draw in corel prefered board size and shape with holes positions  and order plexi CNC cutting.
I don't know prices in UK, but here where i live, it should cost no more than 10 pounds for few boards.
With plexi is good to have at least one spare board.
Don't use turret tags - easier and better is to use soldering connectors like in C12 and ELA M.
For first build i would go for C12 circuit (still with Haufe transformer)

 

[nelly]

Wow! 

Yeah, you've caught the bug alright.  ;D

I didn't know OPR still had them or I would have pointed that out. 

I was wondering this,Can you still buy it?
No new threads, and nothing on website...Please don't tell me that....taken me 3 months to learn and decide,which mic,which way !!!

I seen Fox ,AMI, Gyraf ,many other....done me homework.....if can't get OPR acrylic anymore,is there anyone else who,makes similar PTP build  ? (with excellent instructions like OPR-otherwise no dice)

Wow!  yours be a singer's microphone mostly or an allround instrumental mic?

Guess main job is for Acc gtr  ,then male vox, room mic or recording Electric Guitars thru Valve Combo's, and also Sitar and harmonica.I do blues/rock mainly ,can record for customers...if I like what they do!!!

Liked the 'Vintagemicrophonepcb' website and  build..very good instructions too...I need this kinda detail
That was becoming my fav choice, PCB build  ELam 251 ,before saw  OPR build! PTP...old school..like me.