Glue

[emrr]

Glue usually feels like the wrong word to me in regards to mix compression.  I prefer ‘framing’, like putting a frame around a picture.  A sense there’s an invisible boundary (at least in the way I mix) with no strays poking past it.  Sometimes no mix processing is needed to have that. 

It feels most like a win when my ME does the least.  And when I have done the least.  It says the performance dynamic and the mic choices and placement were spot on. 

In this world of subjective assessments, if you wait long enough someone will redefine something 180 degrees from the way you see it.  I’ve had that experience with mixes many times. 

 

[Script]

I'm nether understanding the "glue" concept, this word is ugly to define anything musical feeling.

Yeah, like cerumen 

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I think that the relationship between the person mixing and the person mastering should be a close partnership. It should be somebody with an ear you trust.

It used to be that when vinyl was the dominant medium. Mastering was a necessity and poor mastering could ruin a record and good mastering allowed the mix to go undented to the medium, although being somewhat altered. Most of the times, we knew that the audible differences between the master tape and the album was the result of technical constraints and thoroughly assessed compromises.

 

[john12ax7]

Mastering also used to arrange track order,  bring cohesiveness to all the album tracks,  prepare for disk duplication.  How much of that is still done in the age of the single?

I view mastering as a necessary final QC step.  It's the final touch and sheen which can be as light or heavy as needed. Even a great mix might need some touchup,  as the monitoring environment in mixing is usually not as good as mastering studios. 

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Mastering also used to arrange track order,  bring cohesiveness to all the album tracks,  prepare for disk duplication.

Editing. Used to be done before disk mastering, obviously. Now, when it's done, it's after "mastering". 

 

[ruairioflaherty]

There's a related thread going on the Gearslutz mastering forum where I've posted some thoughts on this - https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/1306865-pros-cons-doing-your-own-mastering.html

To me the essential ingredient of Mastering is objectivity.  And in the GS thread I make the case that "self mastering" is really just stereo processing. I've done that on hundreds of records that I recorded and mixed back in the day and I regret it, even though I had all sorts of rationalizations at the time.

- Does every artist need an objective outside viewpoint?  No
- Can objectivity in fact undermine great art, individualism and creative spirit? Yes
- Is there a lot of bad mastering out there?  Yes!

I agree with Abbey's point that people are expecting things from mastering that should be done upstream, I am going through this with a younger client right now. He imagined that the clouds would part and that all wrongs would be righted in mastering.

But....I do feel that even if you have world class writers, players, recorders, mixers etc that great mastering can still bring something to the table.  That of course is in the ear of the beholder.

 

[living sounds]

Yes, mastering used to be a different pair of ears in a different listening environment who provided quality control and cohesiveness.

Paying a guy on the web 29 bucks to add digital distortion to your single and maximize RMS output for enhanced listening fatigue had nothing to do with it.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Paying a guy on the web 29 bucks to add digital distortion to your single and maximize RMS output for enhanced listening fatigue had nothing to do with it.

I understand the cynicism but I don't think you are being fair. Just because MacDonalds exists doesn't mean that nourishing and natural home cooked food has gone away, there is a market for both.

Of the mastering engineers here I know Paul Gold and Bluebird in real life and I think it's safe to say that the three of us have spent most of our adult lives in pursuit of better sound for ourselves and our clients.  Are we in the minority?  Somewhat.  There is certainly lots of bad work being done out there but it is not the whole.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I understand the cynicism but I don't think you are being fair. Just because MacDonalds exists doesn't mean that nourishing and natural home cooked food has gone away, there is a market for both.

I understand your concern with generalizing malpractice, but the gist of the problem is that some people feel obliged to have their mixes mastered and become prey to this kind of abuse.

 

[living sounds]

I understand the cynicism but I don't think you are being fair. Just because MacDonalds exists doesn't mean that nourishing and natural home cooked food has gone away, there is a market for both.

Of the mastering engineers here I know Paul Gold and Bluebird in real life and I think it's safe to say that the three of us have spent most of our adult lives in pursuit of better sound for ourselves and our clients.  Are we in the minority?  Somewhat.  There is certainly lots of bad work being done out there but it is not the whole.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are good mastering engineers around and I personally still think it makes sense to have your album mastered by them.

But a lot of what gets done today resembles what I wrote earlier.

 

[CJ]

i need to know

1) how did they do that synth part in Edgar Winter's Frankenstein so you can hear it from the guy across the street while he is wearing head phones

2) how did they do that part in The Clash, the noise after The King calls out his jet fighters so you can hear it from the guy across the street while he is wearing head phones

3) how did they get that cool guitar sound in Funky Town

4)  how did they get the sax to jump out of the grooves on Wynonie Harris Sittin On It so you can hear it on the Juke Box while your in the Mens Room?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBr_ulHlQoY

answer me that and i can sail off to the magic kingdom in peace. 

 

[abbey road d enfer]

i need to know

1) how did they do that synth part in Edgar Winter's Frankenstein so you can hear it from the guy across the street while he is wearing head phones

2) how did they do that part in The Clash, the noise after The King calls out his jet fighters so you can hear it from the guy across the street while he is wearing head phones

3) how did they get that cool guitar sound in Funky Town

4)  how did they get the sax to jump out of the grooves on Wynonie Harris Sittin On It so you can hear it on the Juke Box while your in the Mens Room?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBr_ulHlQoY

answer me that and i can sail off to the magic kingdom in peace.

Many would say these mixes are not "glued"...

 

[Gold]

3) how did they get that cool guitar sound in Funky Town

I love that song. Anything as unabashedly stupid as Funky Town has my deep respect. The guitar sounds like a DI through a phaser to me but I have no inside information.

 

[bluebird]

Hey Abbey, I have a fun activity. Give me a song to master. Even if you think it doesn't need it. I might surprise you. You might surprise me. I definitely owe it to you for help in the past. PM me

 

[Gold]

The guitar on funky town sounds Direct Input to me as well, and probably recorded a couple of takes to create a sort of chorusy effect.  Nothing to write home about but works for the song

Very possible it was a tight double. I’ll have to listen again.

 

[living sounds]

Very possible it was a tight double. I’ll have to listen again.

My guess would be the AMS DMX 15-80S, it was already around in 1980. Best mono-to-stereo converter for guitars, vocals and synths IMO. Slightly pitch one channel up and the other down, compensate delay time, adjust feedback to taste.

 

[Squeaky]

Is everyone listening to the same version?

 

[Gold]

I was going strictly from memory. I have a 7” but I’d have to dig it out.

 

[Squeaky]

The Pseudo Echo version was the one that I remember from, well, growing up in the 80s (released in 1986 ). This is a side effect of my age and living in NZ where the Pseudo Echo version went to No. 1.

I presume that CJ must be referring to the original version by Lipps Inc (1979). The guitar in the cover version is not particularly noteworthy and the guitar in the Lipps Inc version is. It is loud. It seems to me that this is what the arrangement allows. The guitar's presence in the mix is more a function of the song arrangement and mixing as opposed to anything else? However, I am only a mere acolyte of the relevant black arts.

With everyone mentioning DI (which also discussed at another forum) I can now clearly hear that in the guitar sound (confirmation bias?), but as a guitarist my initial thought was to try a fender guitar and fender amp combination (probably a Deluxe). DI of an ES-335 with maybe a 1176 would be worth go (also read that idea elsewhere).

 

[Gold]

I just listened on my phone. I’m changing my answer to tight double with one or both of the guitars gated. I guess it could be precise palm muting but I'd guess noise gate. I think I hear the attack of only one of the guitars which would mean a gate with a slow attack and a quick release.