Good Capacitors and Good Resistors: Metal Film vs Carbon & 1% vs 5%

[juanjovincenzo]

Maybe guys , we can do a Lists of the best Resistor and capacitor manufactores of the DIY PROAUDIO PROJECTS, Likes this newbies and the people know to choose the better components
thanks and  regards
Juanjo..

 

[TheGuitarist]

Well this is just from what i've read out of BOMs and the general feeling i get from reading this forum.

Film caps, Wima.
Electrolytic, Nichicon or Panasonic (I think epcos are fine too)
Ceramics, not sure but as long as they are COG/NPO temperature coefficient they are fine

Resistors, Xicon or vishay seem to be the ones i always see pop up.

If you're into amps them it gets confusing.

Mallory, SoZo etc... but thats amps.

 

[deep_bias]

There are certain electrolytics made to be in the signal path (e.g. Nichicon's KW/KG and ES series) and the advantages that make them good for this aren't necessary for PSU rails filtering duties (or some would argue at all lol).  For power supply rails filtering I would recommend Nichicon's HE series (heard Panny FM is good too but hard to find), they are not expensive, rated 10,000hrs @ 105deg C, and have a low equivalent series resistance (which I have heard is good in this situation, idk completely why or to what extent it matters).  Similar thing goes for decoupling op amps, you don't need a super duper special electrolytic cap for this at all.  Just get something sturdy, and then concerns for bypass caps to get rid of high freqs are different and have been sort of discussed here.  Also be aware how many different types of electrolytic caps panasonic and nichicon make, they are all different and priced accordingly.

Saw someone arguing on an audiophile forum somewhere for using all film caps in a psu filter, lol @ that idea..

I have always heard not to put electrolytic caps in the signal path if you can avoid it (polyester or even better polypropylene film instead), but I have seen some very high performing pieces of audio gear that do (note svart's comment as well).  So put a nice one in if you do I guess.. although comments on here are making me question how much money it's worth spending.  If you are using a cap to block DC in the audio path, you can run into a problem with film caps where you will have to spend a lot of money to totally get high-pass RC artifacting out of your signal and a linear bass response to 20 (because of much $/u-farad).  That said if you get into 3uf or so it's not so bad by ear I think.. but I would defer to others whose monitors are better than my TR-8's on this one .

 

[Svart]

My list was for signal path caps.

Use whatever you want for decoupling PSU's and such.  It doesn't matter nearly as much there as people want you to think.

 

[radiance]

My list was for signal path caps.

Use whatever you want for decoupling PSU's and such.  It doesn't matter nearly as much there as people want you to think.

Big caps near heatsinks > 105C....

 

[juanjovincenzo]

Thanks guys, Now I know goods option to choose a goods capacitor and resistors.
regards

 

[Silvas]

Hola Juanjo,

As i live in Colombia, 1% metal film resistors are almost impossible to get here. What i do, is order quite big quantities of many, many values from Mouser. I do so with every hard to get component. I mean, here, in Bogota, it´s quite impossible to get anything besides a 2n3904 or a TL071 !!! i always go with KOA speer metal film resistors, quite good at a nice price.

The good news, is that i built 8 channels of the quite cool green pre, using almost anything i´ve found locally (including some really nice grayhill 10 pos 2 pole 36 deg index rotaries i scored at an amazing price, the seller still have hundreds). Everything except the MKP vishay bypass caps (again, from Mouser), and using home-etched boards and local made cases. These babies sound quite good ! and i have quite many top preamps to compare with.

In fact, now i remember, my first GSSL is entirely made with carbon film resistors, but i bought lots and measured them within 1% tolerance. Sounds as good as my second GSSL, made with about 80% metal film resistors.  The first GSSL now lives on my drum crush bus and the second is usually parked on the 2mix.

For signal lytics, i use Nichicon HE, and sometimes nichicon Muse.  Again, from Mouser. You can´t go wrong with them. Sounds quite good.

Last week, i found a "sale", lots of extremely nice caps,  MKP, styrenes, nichicon axials, orange drops and so...for about 15 cents apiece. They clearly don´t have a clue of what they´re giving away ! I took lots of these stuff and i´m coming back for more ! maybe, if you do your homework and search really really well your local "electronics town" as i did, you can surprise yourself with the stuff you can find. You may find the ocassional nice VUmeter or something useful.

And lastly, trust your ears and your instinct. If it sounds good, nobody will care about what resistor/cap/transformer/topology you´re using. At least, in my case, no one has ever asked me : hey, which coupling caps are you using on that AMAZING  preamp of yours ???????

Buena suerte y un abrazo !

 

[Andy Peters]

... and have a low equivalent series resistance (which I have heard is good in this situation, idk completely why or to what extent it matters). 

Lower ESR means reduced ripple current.

-a

 

[juanjovincenzo]

Silvas, gracias amigo!! good info.

Thanks , yes I in Ecuador  is the same thing, is very hard to get a good caps oR 1% resistors, The toroid transformers and cases IMPOSIBLES!!!!, HERE ONLY FIND  2X12v NO MORE VOLTS NO 15 OR 18 OR 24!!;  but some times I found a few good things, now I will save the  proyects and boms in mouser to record the links of especial components so when I will start a thread, buy there. Other, especially with the optos components is Allied electronics http://www.alliedelec.com/ and newark for the OEPs transfor.

Now I  am spending my time making only the PCBs at home of some proyects, (Kroc opto compressor, what comp, Green,  PSUs, G1176 and SSL, 312 and 312 psu, balancing amp, ) while I WAIT FOR THE ARRIVAL OF THE KROC´s and GREEN´s MIC PRE COMPONETS FROM MOUSER and Allied Elec. USA TO ECUADOR!!.  I m using the Lazer print and transfer method on a virgin copper PCB. So when I will finish a thread...  then I will have the PCB of other thread ready to use; is very therapeutic the PBC making ja ja aja! .  

I will try to experiment with the components that I find and I listen your advices, maybe I will make a list with the comun  resistor and caps for to use in pro audio DIY, so I will buy some of thems in mouser or other stores. The bad things is in Ecuador we pay a harder tax for the imports, if you import  + 8 lbs or more $400 you pay taxs + IVA, and other internal taxes!! to much money!!! I need to buy "de a poco" sptep by step.
thanks for the advices
regards
mucha suerte y chao
Juanjo

 

[JohnRoberts]

... and have a low equivalent series resistance (which I have heard is good in this situation, idk completely why or to what extent it matters). 

Lower ESR means reduced ripple current.

-a

Sticking lower ESR into ohms law, suggests lower ripple voltage perhaps.

I think the primary benefit to low ESR caps, is reduced heating from internal IxR in switching PS applications.

For audio the benefits are probably more ethereal.

JR

 

[speakercoil]

I haven't read everyone's reply's, but just your main post... So I am sorry if I am repeating what others have said (which I probably am).

% of tolerance really isn't going to say too much about the sound of the component. Tight tolerances generally mean that it will be more accurate and might be more linear sounding. However that isn't always the case. Some metal films sound worse than others.

In general Metal Film is going to be the most accurate. Carbon film is still pretty accurate and some say it adds a little mojo. However if you are going for that carbon mojo, you might as well go old school with Carbon Comps... Carbon Comps have a pretty sloppy tolerance of something like 5-10% depending on the make. To compare, metal films fall somewhere around 1%. I myself really like Tantalums (not the Audionote reissues but the Shinkoh originals). They have a certain mojo to them, but are more accurate than Carbon Comps. Now if you want SUPER tight tolerance and really want something that won't influence your tone... Then go with Bulk Metal.

As far as companies and who I think makes the best of each flavor....

Tantalum: Shinkoh
Wire Wound: Mills (only because I don't know anyone else who makes them)
Carbon Comp: Allen Bradley, Arcol
Carbon Film: Takman
Metal Film: Takman, Vishay Dale, Holco
Bulk Metal: Vishay, Charcroft, Texas Instruments (they make them for Vishay and you can get them about 1/2 price)

I will also note that a lot of people say that resistors don't make a significant difference in tone... In some aspects I do agree with this. There isn't MUCH of a change in the tone. It's not going to make or break the sound of a piece of gear. However it does have a small influence on it, and one that is noticeable. There are a lot of non-believers, however I know a couple of guys who noticed a change in sound as soon as their old pieces of gear had carbon comps changed out for metal film...

Also a note on carbon comps... They are known for their tone, because they tend to "drift" when they get heated up.

Now onto capacitors....

This is another thing of speculation. There are many different types of capacitors and all provide different sonic characteristics.There are Teflon, Paper In Oil, Beeswax, Tar, polystyrene, silver mica, and many other variations.

I like paper in oil... I haven't had the cash to try teflon or beeswax... Tars really aren't made anymore (that i know of).

As far as companies go...

Mundorf, Auricap, Audionote, Black Gate, and Elna are all good bets.

I think for the money Auricaps are the best... However you won't be wasting your money on the more expensive brands either. It does get a little crazy when you enter teflon or Duelund land... Duelunds go all the way up to several grand per capacitor.

Two good resources for them...

www.hificollective.co.uk
www.partsconnexion.com

Hope that helps!

-Grant

 

[juanjovincenzo]

thanks really good info, "clear" this topic.
regards
Juanjo

 

[Silvas]

Silvas, gracias amigo!! good info.

Thanks , yes I in Ecuador  is the same thing, is very hard to get a good caps oR 1% resistors, The toroid transformers and cases IMPOSIBLES!!!!, HERE ONLY FIND  2X12v NO MORE VOLTS NO 15 OR 18 OR 24!!;  but some times I found a few good things, now I will save the  proyects and boms in mouser to record the links of especial components so when I will start a thread, buy there. Other, especially with the optos components is Allied electronics http://www.alliedelec.com/ and newark for the OEPs transfor.

Now I  am spending my time making only the PCBs at home of some proyects, (Kroc opto compressor, what comp, Green,  PSUs, G1176 and SSL, 312 and 312 psu, balancing amp, ) while I WAIT FOR THE ARRIVAL OF THE KROC´s and GREEN´s MIC PRE COMPONETS FROM MOUSER and Allied Elec. USA TO ECUADOR!!.  I m using the Lazer print and transfer method on a virgin copper PCB. So when I will finish a thread...  then I will have the PCB of other thread ready to use; is very therapeutic the PBC making ja ja aja! .  

I will try to experiment with the components that I find and I listen your advices, maybe I will make a list with the comun  resistor and caps for to use in pro audio DIY, so I will buy some of thems in mouser or other stores. The bad things is in Ecuador we pay a harder tax for the imports, if you import  + 8 lbs or more $400 you pay taxs + IVA, and other internal taxes!! to much money!!! I need to buy "de a poco" sptep by step.
thanks for the advices
regards
mucha suerte y chao
Juanjo

Hola Juanjo,

For the toroids, i use Antek. But i make sure to order a large quantity to take advantage of the $37 flat rate box they use. You can fit 20 small toroids in there (the 10VA ones). They are cheap, too ! you can order a full box for all your upcoming DIY projects, 2x15 and 2x24 being the most useful, at least for me. I built my D-LA2A with anteks, and i´m close to finishing my D-AOC, with an antek, too. I was tired with local trafo winders and their limitations. And the anteks cost almost the same as the local sh*t i was buying.

The cases? yeah, i know. But i was determined to roll my own cases, locally, and i succeded. Lots of money and effort, but now, i have a "standard" 1RU case, made for me by my local metalwork shop, that i can use with anything i want. Except tubes or something big. For the big cases, have a look here http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=36889.0 for a small description of what i did to make a 3RU case, using a regular production case from my local metal shop and a custom made 3U panel.

I accomplished a lot, even being in Colombia, even with all the trouble to get quality parts. Surely you can do much more, even being in Ecuador ! I must admit that my brother´s help, who lives in the U.S and brings me lots of parts every 6 months, has been invaluable (no taxes or shipping !)

 

[juanjovincenzo]

Gracias Camilo!
Thanks
Yes good idea about the Antek toroids, please can say me where I can buy that, or write me the link.
I´m watching your LA2 exelent, I am happy for you, in the future I will ask many about  of The LA2, in spanish of couse je eje.
regards

mucha suerte
y chao
Juanjo

 

[Silvas]

Gracias Camilo!
Thanks
Yes good idea about the Antek toroids, please can say me where I can buy that, or write me the link.
I´m watching your LA2 exelent, I am happy for you, in the future I will ask many about  of The LA2, in spanish of couse je eje.
regards

mucha suerte
y chao
Juanjo

http://www.antekinc.com/


Good luck !

 

[Muziq3]

What is the correct % (1 or 5) for a really good sound quality?.

Hi friend. 

Resistor tolerance should not have a direct effect of the sound quality at all, unless one ONLY references the color code and assumes the resistor value to be within the tolerance that is listed on the resistor.  The tolerance is only useful in the area of mass production where there is little time to effectively measure each resistor for every circuit build.

For example:

Say you have a 1kΩ resistor and the tolerance is 5%, the resistance could vary from 950 - 1.5k.  Now, we select this resistor and expect it to be 1kΩ based on the color code and tolerance printed on the resistor.  Now say that our theoretical circuit design does not allow us to use a resistor that measures below 980 or above 1.1kΩ, we would probably not want to use this resistor as the value may be out of range.  In this case we would measure the resistor to be exact or we could use a 1% tolerance resistor and hope that it is within the listed tolerance range and that the color code is correct.

But as far as quality goes, the only thing that matters is the resistance value and its function within the circuit; the tolerance just gives us a range of probable resistance.



-JW

 

[juanjovincenzo]

Thanks  JW,
Is good to know the technical perspective and how that can or can not influence in the sound quality, now I feel clear about the resistors ; 1% tolenrance means that the resistor have more precision in the circuit.
Thanks
Best regards

 

[Nele]

5% tolerance on 1K resistor is between 950 and 1050.. not 1500... (so 1K05 instead of 1K5)..