Group Buy (See first post): DB25 Mod for GDIY511 Rack TASCAM Analog pinout

[bruce0]

Ok, jandoste:

But it has gotten kind of complicated because now I have these add on cards. 

What precisely do you want to get:

The main TASCAM card (this group buy) - Which provides 8 channel TASCAM connection (or with 2 cards you can have 11 channels through two TASCAM connections).

or

The Cascade router card

or

The Channel 11 Select card

I have put you down for the TASCAM card, if there is interest in the other two cards I will need to make a couple of module fronts to select channel, select cascade connections etc.  These do require quiet a few relays (8 or 9 for cascade, 20 for channel select) so if there is interest in that we should probably combine the relay buy.

 

[jordanazor]

I'll take 4 cards depending on pricing. Am in Perth, Western Australia so shipping is a factor as well.

How long until there's a set price and ETA? I'm not quite fully understanding how the Mod 11 will work but from what I'm gathering the functionality sounds highly useful. The control module also helps bring 11 down to a nice even 10 which is appealing to the more neurotic side of my brain.

 

[bruce0]

I'll take 4 cards depending on pricing. Am in Perth, Western Australia so shipping is a factor as well.

How long until there's a set price and ETA? I'm not quite fully understanding how the Mod 11 will work but from what I'm gathering the functionality sounds highly useful. The control module also helps bring 11 down to a nice even 10 which is appealing to the more neurotic side of my brain.

I have been discussing with the board house, and have all the layouts done.  I am double checking this because I can't prototype it (I can only self etch BIG FAT traces...) but I am planning on getting it out to the house next week.  Then I need to build one make sure it works, that will take no time at all for the TASCAM card. 

As far as cost is concerned as I send it out I will know the cost for the TASCAM card. 

The other cards might be a different deal, I am willing to do them at cost but I am not sure how much interest there will be so I think I could end up holding the bag on those (I don't know how many to get, but I want to order them at the same time to save costs (and because I want to get playing with it). I was thinking of panelizing them 2 tascam and one daughter card.  But I will suss it out, and get it ordered.

As far as functionality it is not that hard to understand.

one daughter card lets you use a relay to plug the output of module one, into the input of module 2 (just like a patch panel) etc.

the other daughter card lets you plug a mic into channel 11, and with two rotary switches control relays that select which mic pre you are using (if you select 1 and 1 you are using mic pre 1, if you select 3 and 3 you are using mic pre 3).

maybe I am just bad at explaining it. 

It is sort of like the Cartec audio compere http://www.cartecaudio.com/?page_id=2211 except there is no front panel xlr (unless you build it). 

Currently the front panel can be as simple as two of Ian's lorlin or grayhill switch cards if you use 24V relays and a 48V phantom supply switch connected to something in the card slot.  I added a cap to isolate the pre from the selected module.  Or you can do something more elaborate as i have donehttp://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=53957.0.

More to follow on this.

 

[jordanazor]

Is there a way of stacking pres using the cascading system? ie Could I engage 1 (pre) 4 (EQ) 9 (compressor) and audition that chain in sequence through the mic in 11? And hypothetically change one element at a time? Keep 1, 4 the same but try a different EQ on 10?

 

[bruce0]

Is there a way of stacking pres using the cascading system? ie Could I engage 1 (pre) 4 (EQ) 9 (compressor) and audition that chain in sequence through the mic in 11? And hypothetically change one element at a time? Keep 1, 4 the same but try a different EQ on 10?

No, because it is not a full matrix router. (You can do that with a patch panel of course).

I called it Cascade because it allows sequential routing.  With the Cascade daughter card you can stack any 2 or more SEQUENTIAL cards, left to right. Some API racks (Radial, Cartec) have this capability do it with switches on the back of the rack (no relays) and call it "FEED".

Examples:

Say you want to put a little compression on (for tracking, or for singer monitoring, or to do out of the box compression after summing but before printing to digital/tape).

So you have a mic pre in 1 and a comp in 2
If you switch on relay 1  you will accomplish the following:

A mic plugged into input 1, will be amplified by module 1, compressed by module 2, and the signal output on 2.

Similarly if you have a pre in 5 and a comp in 6, you will create a similar short channel strip inputing on 5 and outputting on 6.

Of course you could add an EQ and you would use two relays to link the three modules, then your virtual channel strips would be 3 modules long.

And the outputs of each module are still hot, so you can track the output you want.

The Channel 11 card is different

Say you have a bunch of preamps and you think for this vocal you might want your SSL 9K in there, or you might want something dirtier - say a 312, or a tube pre. 

It can be slow to compare which sounds better (stop, turn off phantom, switch mic cable patch, power up phantom, etc) by which time the singer has wandered off or moved or gotten bored.

With this cascade card you can set up two preamps to compare, and then move the input from one to the other (you could have the output's mixed so your levels matched).  Since you provide phantom at Channel 11 - you don't need to change that.  It is quicker.

Or you can switch both input and output.  The channel 11 card patches OUTPUT to OUTPUT  and INPUT TO INPUT.  So the signal delivered on the Channel 11 output is whatever you switch it to be (including off).  Channel 11 produces no output of it's own.  Same for input (except that channel 11 input is capable of providing phantom power, even when it is off). You can obviously use the Channel 11 card in combination with the Cascade card.  And compare two different signal chains the same way.

The outputs just switch by activating one of 10 relays.  The Channel 11 input pins (2 and 3) have capacitors between them and the preamps to address possible phantom power noise/problems when switching but other than that, it just activates one of 10 relays.

The cards fit under the existing connectors between the back panel and the backplane. I put the relay cards in the back of the case for several reasons.  First it keeps the signal path short.  Second it leaves the whole rack "unscathed" if you want to use all 11 channels. If the relays are unpowered, the Rack works just like a GDIY 51x rack on all 11 channels. Lastly you might want to control the relays in various way, anything from mounting switches on the back to building your own modules to control.

Limitations
The Channel 11 card lets you choose any input or output from 1 to X, where X is <=10.  The cascade module lets you chain any to modules together from the set 1-9 (you can't chain 10 and put it into output 11.  Conceptually it would work, but I wanted to keep 11 open for other things).

The cards do require a TASCAM Card, but they don't require you to punch the holes in the back of the case unless you want to USE TASCAM.  The TASCAM Card just deals with the 50 pin connector available on the GDIY 51X rack and routes it to a daughtercard.  You can mount the cards in the back of the rack without exposing the TASCAM DB25 pin connector.  Right now it appears that I can stack 1 daughter card with 1 TASCAM card, but I may be able to solder two daughter cards together (spacing will be tight) I will let you know when I get them.  Two TASCAM cards can fit in the back with room for a daughtercard each.

 

[jordanazor]

Thanks for the in-depth reply, Bruce. Please put me down for the 4 TASCAM cards to begin with. I'll work with them for a while and see if the extra functionality of the Cascade will suit me in the future.

 

[bruce0]

Since there are only 4 of these cards out there now it is unlikely that anyone noticed that the DB25 connectors are upside down! (and my racks are already punched).

ONLY USE THE TEMPLATE file for punching panels.

 

[jordanazor]

Hey Bruce,

Can I trouble you for a quick ETA on the regular TASCAM to Dsub card? (assuming you have one of course.) I'm trying to plan accordingly.

Thanks mate!

 

[jordanazor]

That's all good, Bruce. I'm still organizing shipping on my various bits and pieces but your DB25 cards have become rather central to my proposed rig. It'll be a while before I'm completely up and running but am for the moment looking toward a rough timeline to prioritize what to invest in and when

 

[jordanazor]

Any news Bruce?

 

[kvothe]

Hi Bruce, after some thought I would like 4 Tascam cards, 2 Cascade cards and 2 11Channel cards. Depending on prices I will double that order.
Have a great christmas!

 

[jordanazor]

Wonderful. Just in time for Christmas!

Will the template stay the same? I had Cemal punch the holes for me and the kits just arrived

 

[sahib]

Hi Jordan,

Just noticed your post here.  I did not really follow a template to cut the holes. So if there is a single card for four D25 subs  then it will not fit. However, if the card is  for a  single D25 then no problem.  However, I also did not know you would be looking for a card so the D25s I included are solder bucket type not PCB.

 

[jordanazor]

It's 2 cards for four connections. I was sure I sent you the template from earlier in the thread but you must have missed it...

That's ok. Bruce, could you chime in as to whether or not this will prove a major issue to overcome? I have a bag of solder bucket connectors as Cemal mentioned and will post a photograph of the two back panels when I get back home.

 

[bruce0]

Sorry for the delay in chiming in.  I have been rapidly verifying measurements. 

For the tascam connections ONLY (not the daughter cards) the old spacing should be fine.

If you want to put the daughter cards on AND you want to have more than one daughter card, then you may need a bit more room between the two cards.  Checking my old template now, I will get back to you momentarily.

 

[bruce0]

I have now verified my measurements.

For TASCAM cards I have stayed true to the original template. So the new TASCAM mother cards will fit using the old punch template for 1 or 2 cards (I.E. 2 or 4 connectors)

Daughter cards might not fit the old template.

Attached is a new template file, which is what I recommend for anyone punching a new panel. 

 

[bruce0]

Also, regarding the D-Sub 25 pin connector.  Here are some possibles from the BOM. 
Really any straight PCB pin DB25 female is fine. 

Choose LOW PROFILE to allow the daughter cards.

All of these are fine and low profile:
FCI - D25S24A6GX00LF – rated 500 connect disconnect cycles - TESTED (Harpoons)
FCI - D25S24A4GX00LF – rated 200 cycles (Harpoons)
FCI - D25S24A6RX09LF – rated 500 cycles - TESTED (Pegs)
KYCON - K85X-BD-25S-BR or BRJ should work too (KYCON makes nice connectors)
FCI - 10090098-S254VLF – Economy rated 50 cycles, - (Harpoons) includes 4/40 jackscrews

 

[KDE]

Hey can you take me off your list i've gone another direction and won't be needing these anymore

 

[bruce0]

Received the cards, they look good.  Building and installing to test just to be sure.

Real-PCB did a really nice job.  They panelized the cards for me, and that lowered the engineering price substantially.  The panel breaks are nice and clean - tabs with holes drilled for breakaway.  Holes follow the edge so the break is really clean, usable with no cleanup, one stroke with a file and it is smooth.

Tascam Cards are the two center cards.  Channel 11 card on the right.  Cascade Routing card on the left.

bb

 

[bruce0]

The TASCAM cards are now available. 
I have checked them and the pinouts and mounting are fine.

There was one error from the FAB but they have fixed that and the new cards have arrived.

Furthermore you can see that the fit is flexible, and the little relay cards can fit behind them hanging from the back panel or be standoff mounted from the backplane.

Instructions are in first post.

The instructions include a template.

Complete BOM is in instructions (for TASCAM adapter).