Harvey Weinstein et al

[tands]

https://twitter.com/rosemcgowan

 

[tands]

Kendall Fells sexually harassed and fired me along with five other women. I was trashed as difficult and unhireable. This is justice.

https://twitter.com/mcbyrne/status/926121477497413632

 

[tands]

Then, she said, he masturbated in front of her.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/10/24/harvey-weinstein-scandal-wonder-woman-star-connie-nielsen-says-producer-groped-her/794327001/

 

[iampoor1]

Obama and his family were dignified and united. A great looking family that led by example. But to be honest, I don't think a lot of white Americans like that. They don't like that a "black" family is that 'perfect' and make it all the way into the White House. Something must be wrong (relative to the others).

I think you will find FAR more white Americans that are sick of being accused of racist behavior. The burden of proof is high, and speculation into peoples motives is intrusive and presumptuous. This sort of speculation has lead to a backlash and even more division with no clear end in sight.

 

[Tubetec]

Maybe now all the perverts and sex predators are leaving Hollywood they might get back to making good films again .
Trial by media is no good ,but at least now the silence of the victims is broken and the likes of Mr Wankensteins career are finished for good . It is a source of wonder though that the man in the whitehouse ,who seems to suffer this same predatory disease has so far escaped any charges . Im not really sure why this topic has diverted into a discussion on racism though .

 

[tands]

Because everyone here is innocent of both, but quite concerned they're going to be falsely accused. 

 

[ombudsman]

I think you will find FAR more white Americans that are sick of being accused of racist behavior. The burden of proof is high, and speculation into peoples motives is intrusive and presumptuous. This sort of speculation has lead to a backlash and even more division with no clear end in sight.

People that have double standards for the way they treat others by race are racists. It's not speculation, and it doesn't require knowledge of motives or thoughts.  The division and backlash are due to their racism, not it being called out for what it is.

 

[iampoor1]

People that have double standards for the way they treat others by race are racists.

I agree...with some caveats. I think this definition is too simple, but I dont think Im going to be able to fully articulate why on an internet forum. This is assuming someones motivation for how they feel. IE: Maybe someone is uncomfortable around someone because they do not understand their culture, or the way they speak, or _____. Is this racist? Maybe, or maybe not. I think you have to understand a persons motivation to know if they are uncomfortable with someones race, or uncomfortable with an individuals behavior, or maybe just not sure how to feel! I have been in numerous situations where I was very uncomfortable around unfamiliar people. If I worded it wrong, it would sound racist, whereas the truth is that I was uncomfortable because I didnt know how to engage them in conversation. It was actually a really good learning experience.

It's not speculation, and it doesn't require knowledge of motives or thoughts.  The division and backlash are due to their racism, not it being called out for what it is.

Yes it does, because there is some grey area in all of this. A persons motivation (in my opinion) determines if there actions are racist or not. For instance, you can accidentally offend someone by something something that they presume is racist. Its very easy to use the wrong words, or ask questions in a poor manner and then have the race card pulled. I have asked innocuous questions about peoples culture before and then been accused of being a racist, because my questions did not come out right. Thats not a sign of me being a racist, but rather a simple sign of a misunderstanding. Of course, there are plenty of examples of people doing outright racist things, and I think those motivations are somewhat clearer.  ;D I think we need to remember that we are talking about people, and we cannot forget the impact that individuals perspectives have.

Racism is far more complex than being simply black and white.

 

[Tubetec]

I think the issue at the heart of this is how has society allowed these animals into positions of power in the first place ,its a universal problem that crosses all races creeds and colours. At the end of the day institutions ,Hollywood being one example, will undermine the victims and preserve the perpetrators and its own reputation at all costs.We've seen the same pattern here in Ireland in relation to the catholic churches response to the abuse ,torture ,rape and murder of children. Still thousands maybe even tens of thousands of bodies lie in mass graves and there's no will politically or from society in general to look into what took place in these church/state run institutions. Wouldnt you say its symptomatic of a damaged society that now you have the likes of Trump in the whitehouse ,who bragged that his power allowed him to have sex with any woman he wants and that he can manhandle them in anyway he pleases .Its a pretty dangerous message to be sending out to the youth that its acceptable to behave in that way. Seems like Weinersteins behaviour was was the biggest insider joke in hollywood for many years .

Of course all the hysteria does make a plain old spank on the ass for fun a bit of a risky game nowadays, but I think there still is a time and a place for it ,its all about context. Theres a thing  that often happens me on nights out ,say Im in a bar watching a band ,space it tight cause theres a bit of a crowd ,ocassionally you'll get a woman who walks past and 'boobs' you ,by this I mean she just manages to rub her nipples off you as she passes , theres something primal about it ,but of course its not unpleasent if it does happen .anyway just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same phenomenon.Of course if the situation is reversed a man could find himself in court for committing frotterage,wheres the equality in that ?

 

[Tubetec]

I think forms of discrimination can also exist just the same within groups of people who share the same colour race and creed ,the traditional rivalry here in Ireland occurs between one village and the next ,and it continues up to cities and counties . In my day in school many of the working class lads got a terribly hard time from the teachers ,having a father out of work or in prison was used as a big stick to beat the less well off kids in the class ,we didnt realise at the time that what was going on was emotional abuse and were afraid to stand up against it incase we were the next victim of the harrassment . It was only years later I realised the toll this abuse had on the boys who got the worst of it ,aside from going through difficult family circumstances ,life was made a misery for certain individuals in school , and down the longer road the casualties to drink drugs and addiction became obvious.This all stems from one section of society looking down their nose at another. Colour race and religion just seems to be a convienient dividing line ,but with or without diversity in terms of race etc the discrimination can still occur

 

[JohnRoberts]

I think this  at the heart of your disapproval. I really don't believe Obama was only trying to help just impoverished black people but all impoverished people. Being the first black president, it would be unfair to expect him to not have some bias for his people in his heart. The public felt this. I think this rubbed a lot people the wrong way, and most would not consider themselves racists one bit. Because of that there was probably some guilt and confusion psychologically. "I'm not a racist but I know this guy is just looking out for his people and not mine"

Do not put those ugly words in my mouth...  If I thought that I would say that, I listed the "brother's keeper" initiative information as one of the few good things he did...(to be fair to him).

The need to vilify him in some other way became important.

why? I did not vote for him, but I was hoping for his success as POTUS, because that would "our" success.

Comparatively to the other presidents of his time, I will definitely give him a pass on that one.

You can't possibly think in context with today's political circus, that this gossip article calls into question Barack Obama's morality.

I question the morality of all politicians. President Obama is undeniably a politician, a persuasive one at that.

There is something compelling you to dig around for reasons however insignificant.

I was asked to explain a statement.

Thank you for your answers, I understand why you have the feelings you do.

apparently not

I don't think your a racist at all,

"you're" (contraction of you are)...  your (possessive)  comments suggest otherwise.

you just have a strong sense of us and them. And I suspect not in a race or cultural way, but in a general Darwinian way.

I do not know what that even means, and yes I know about Darwin and evolution.  Perhaps you are thinking about how early cultures (like hunter gatherers) feared and shunned outsiders and anybody different (because it was successful for their early survival). Culture has not completely inhibited those legacy instincts.

==========
I feel like I need to clarify that IMO President Obama mainly squandered his opportunity to unify the races. He didn't overtly create the division but mined it for political benefit.. (i.e. votes, as Democrats have for decades). 

In fairness the Russians, and probably others (chinese?) have been working social media for years to weaken our national unity by promoting divisive themes, effectively supporting both sides of divisive issues (race is only one of their several targets).

The fake Russian social media account (Blacktivist) had more verified followers than Black Lives Matters. Since the russians were just trying to stir the pot they supported police groups too and all sides of every argument. They didn't care which side wins or loses, they just want us to be so busy fighting with each other, that they can operate unfettered around the world. I suspect that plan backfired and we are now seeing how pervasive their tentacles of influence invaded our social media.

Just another thing making our current political climate different (and more volatile).  Perhaps to some degree this explains the reason why we haven't even accepted and moved on past the last election, a year ago.

JR

 

[tands]

I think it's plain nonsense to claim Obama ever had an opportunity to 'unify the races' simply for being the first black president, and then blame him because he 'didn't do it'.  Also, it's not black people's job to cure white people's racism.  :

It's real cute you trying to hide the institutional racism in this country, and the overt and covert racism of the majority of white people, by blaming racial tension on the russians and chinese, and by implication black people too. But hey, any excuse to deflect from white people's racism is a good excuse, I guess?

.

 

[tands]

The simple truth is that if Hillary Clinton couldn’t beat Russian trolls who spent fifty grand on 2,200 Facebook ads despite a billion (or more) dollars worth of free media coverage and nearly eight hundred million in campaign funds, then she is what the left has always said she is – a pretty shitty candidate for President of the United States.

http://www.ninaillingworth.com/2017/09/19/a-brief-thought-clinton-facebook-the-ridiculous-russiagate-redux/

 

[tands]

I'm a white guy, the majority of white people engage in overt and/or covert racism against non white people. I've seen it my entire life, I've been racist too. I'm not going to lie about it. I take exception to people excusing it or pretending it away because it hurts their feelings. Black people endure much worse daily.

It's real cute you trying to hide the institutional racism in this country, and the overt and covert racism of the majority of white people, by blaming racial tension on the russians and chinese, and by implication black people too. But hey, any excuse to deflect from white people's racism is a good excuse, I guess?

.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I feel like I need to clarify that IMO President Obama mainly squandered his opportunity to unify the races. He didn't overtly create the division but mined it for political benefit.. (i.e. votes, as Democrats have for decades). 

Going against my better judgement to briefly dip in to this discussion.  I have my criticisms of Obama but I think he was extraordinarily restrained in this regard.  The Democrats do represent the majority of black Americans but I think Obama did a pretty good job of putting that to one side and endeavoring to represent all Americans as President.

I think Obama's election revealed the ugly truth about the extent of racism in this country, something that perhaps we had talked ourselves into believing we had made more progress on than we really had.

In Ireland when I was growing up we always prided ourselves on being fair minded and would tut tut racism abroad…..until we had an influx of African asylum seekers and Polish immigrants because of our booming economy.  The racism was always there and came out when we had a focal point.  That's similar to how I see the Obama experience.

 

[Gustav]

???

2008 - Barack Obama Democratic Illinois 69,456,897 52.92%
2012  -Barack Obama      Democratic Illinois 65,915,795 51.06%
2016 - Donald Trump Republican New York 62,984,825 46.09%

I dont think Ruairi made was trying to make the point  that the majority of americans are racist, just that he feels that the election of  a black president revealed a great extent of racism in opposition to him.

I think the Trump guy is nuts, but I dont know if he is racist. I dont even know if he is really someone that would qualify as a person in my understanding of the world.

Grab em' by the pussy?

Gustav

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I'm not naive and know there is racism just to be clear........

But there is a lot more of non racism and it's not talked about enough imo.......

Respectfully, that is complete rubbish. 

Patient - Hey doc I'm having a heart attack
Doctor - Let's talk about the parts of your body that are working well, we don't do that enough

Racism is a massive problem in this country.  Massive.  The accepted wisdom seems to be "Oh we had the civil rights movement, we're good".  As I see it we are not even a few steps down a long road of truly acknowledging what has happened here from slavery on.

I had an extended family member casually drop the phrase "Niglet" at a family event recently, referring to a black child.  I had never heard the word and it took me a second to process. 

 

[bluebird]

Do not put those ugly words in my mouth... 

Whoa there, I was not trying to put words in your mouth. I was talking in a general sense, many people think of "us and them" as the family across the street, or management and labor, or nationalism in a larger sense. I think you took that wrong.
See, I've always had a hard time squaring your intellect with your world view. I've learned a lot from you over the years and respect your opinions more than you know or care.

The Darwin comment was to say, I don't think you base your opinions on race and culture so much as intelligence and ability. The strong survive. But it rubs me the wrong way when people with above average intelligence and ability lack empathy. Because it is these people who's responsibility it is to help pull the rest of us idiots up, not shut us out.
I made the mistake of wanting you to see it my way, I suppose I got too personal...

Sorry I offended you, and on your birthday too. Doh!

Ian

P.S. And you do help us idiots on the forum...thank you.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I think there is more non racism and my environment supports this belief.  I agree it's still a large problem and more progress is going to be made because it's the right thing. But it's not what I'm reading here.....

I think there is more non racism and my environment supports this belief.

Said another way ..

I think there is more non racism and my skin color (and consequent life experience)  supports this belief.

I never said there was more racists than not, I have no way of knowing that.  What I am saying is that racism is systematic and countrywide from school yards to boardrooms.

One example of mentioning the positives is how Colin Kaepernick has been used as an example of racism but it's not mentioned that he was adopted and raised by a white couple. it's not talked about enough imo that there are good examples of non racist things going on.

Seriously? We're supposed to get a prize for that?  That's just being a decent human, it's not news.

So let's tally the score -two white people are good(?) because they raised a black kid and god knows how many millions of white people are losing their minds because they can't wrap their brains around what it is he actually protesting  (in an incredibly dignified and powerful way).  Maybe let's wait a minute before we pat ourselves on the back huh?

Sure there are problems that we have to deal with and they need to be identified. But painting visions of terrifying nightmares that most white people are racist is what I'd call garbage. Respectfully of course.....

You inferred that from another poster's comments so I'll him/her to defend that.  I think the problem is massive.

There are plenty of races with plenty of success stories and positive messages out there if people choose to listen to them.
But there has to be both sides of the story I suppose. How can one define the other without each other.

Ok, we're on very different pages.  No need to inconvenience any more electrons.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Whoa there, I was not trying to put words in your mouth. I was talking in a general sense, many people think of "us and them" as the family across the street, or management and labor, or nationalism in a larger sense. I think you took that wrong.
See, I've always had a hard time squaring your intellect with your world view. I've learned a lot from you over the years and respect your opinions more than you know or care.

The Darwin comment was to say, I don't think you base your opinions on race and culture so much as intelligence and ability. The strong survive. But it rubs me the wrong way when people with above average intelligence and ability lack empathy. Because it is these people who's responsibility it is to help pull the rest of us idiots up, not shut us out.
I made the mistake of wanting you to see it my way, I suppose I got too personal...

Sorry I offended you, and on your birthday too. Doh!

Ian

P.S. And you do help us idiots on the forum...thank you.

Relax I was just irritated by being sucked into covering old ground... no worries
======
Do we need to start looking for russian bots trying to seed dissent on this forum too?  (kidding or maybe not).

JR