I Drink

[analag]

To the old guards, those who died, who are in the old folks home, who ran away and those who just lost the love of electronics and the spirit if DIY.  I remember the old geniuses, the guys who were able to stimulate PRR. When they left I stopped trying to analyze molecules and found newer more exciting hobbies. I have not built a piece in years that  brought a tear to my eye.

 

[pucho812]

might want to switch back to the cola, that liquor is not right for you 

 

[bluebird]

You need to loosen up you big NERD... Always so dramatic.
Most of the "old guards" are still here. And there are plenty of new guards, so who cares?

Everything is the same as it ever was. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was... 8)

 

[user 37518]

He posted the same thing two years ago... https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=69860.msg890878#msg890878

 

[fazer]

Like it Adam .  I’m posting  that post in a notebook.

 

[mjrippe]

Personally, I think I am "Old Guard" or at least old but then I also think I am hilariously funny.  You folks may not read me that way, who knows?  Regardless, I love this place and the characters that inhabit it.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

The whole world could use a heavy dose of tube amplifiers to take the edge off.  I am 100% serious about that.  The sharp digital audio, the sharp digital imagery, the quantity of 'content', the lack of 'content' control. 

The answer to bad digital is not fuzzy analog, it's good digital.

 

[scott2000]

Most of us are recreating and revising stuff from 50 years ago.  I'm about to start a project that uses a design from 1947. 

Can't wait to see it.... 

One thing I have noticed on somewhat of a flip side is that, the more I hear some cool tube stuff, the more I appreciate a good solid state piece. Kinda weird and hard to explain exactly what I mean.... somewhat similar when I started to back pedal my beliefs a little on modding gear after a few years of doing it.

Another thing is that I'm guessing the mindset of the builders from the eras gone by probably don't line up with the reasons we want to build them in some ways. Which is pretty cool none the less.....

Oh...Cheers!

 

[user 37518]

Back in the day, those records that have so many imperfections as you say, were like that because there was no other choice, they did what they did with the equipment they had at hand which was state of the art back then. People nowadays are still making garbage using Neve and SSL equipment. And yes, count me in the no coulour design police...

 

[Scodiddly]

These days I drink almost exclusively from local brewers.  Luckily even my little village has two microbreweries, so I've got some choices.

 

[user 37518]

What I refer to about warm, slow glow is much more subtle than you may realize and most people are not even aware of the issue, but it is there.  There is proof that tube amplifiers are more calming.  And yes, I like solid state amplifiers too.

When you say stuff like that you have to provide references to back up your claims, proof? Prove it, which study?, under which conditions? what was the sample? how big was the sample? 2-3 persons VS. 100, was it mainly old guys or young guys? male or female? was it made by a reputable source like a university or was it a 'dude' in his basement with a couple of friends? What exactly about tube amplifiers makes them more calming? is it the distortion? is it that they look pretty? You have to be able to quantify these things, otherwise, there is proof of nothing, that is scientific proof im talking about, unless you mean faith based proof which is a completely different thing, and if so, im not interested.

 

[user 37518]

I'll leave that one for you to find out. 

I though you had proof?

But ok, I'll answer some of your questions, what about the modern classical music records made all-digitally vs the crappy old ones were you couldn't listen to the low sections because there was enough hiss to blow your toupee? or you couldnt stand a steady violin string because all the wow and flutter? or when the orchestra saturated the tube amps on the loud passages and you could hear the distortion? is that enough examples?. There is also jazz, folk music, country for that matter... many of them are entirely digital. So your assertion that There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None is flawed, you need to widen your horizons, not everything is Pink Floyd or Demi Lovato.

 

[user 37518]

I listen to all genres wise ass.
My argument isn't flawed, you just don't know what you don't know.

Answer the rest of the questions posed.  Put your heightened beliefs and information out there.

By the way you respond I'm guessing that you are pretty young, so I'll let this one slide..., I already answered some of your questions, you say: There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None, I just gave you examples, You say there is proof that tubes are more calming, yet you dont provide proof, what more do you want?

 

[user 37518]

Answer all the questions, you did not prove anything other than you just don't know what you're talking about and you want to try and nit pick.  Don't assume I'm not talking about all genres, or insult me cause you think you're depth is so much wider.

So if you are talking about all genres, then There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None, also applies to all genres?

 

[user 37518]

The problem is that all the proof that you have provided to back up your arguments is "my parents listen to a station called easy listening", and when asked for proof of your arguments you tell me that "you'll leave that to me" or you get angry... Like I said, you are obviously young and I should not take it on you, I'll leave you with your opinions since there is no point arguing with you. Im out.

 

[gridcurrent]

please allow me to chime in.

public has spoken.  sales of new classical (digital) are nearly non-existent. 
lets hear the excuses.

meanwhile, Brian's friends in Salinas, Kansas have been selling vintage vinyl, including classical recordings for years.
yes, those records with hiss , distortion, and wow & flutter.

 

[user 37518]

please allow me to chime in.

public has spoken.  sales of new classical (digital) are nearly non-existent. 
lets hear the excuses.

meanwhile, Brian's friends in Salinas, Kansas have been selling vintage vinyl, including classical recordings for years.
yes, those records with hiss , distortion, and wow & flutter.

Again, show me the numbers.... from a reputable source if possible

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Ruairi and user 37518, what mics do you use?  What hardware?  Show me one record that you like that doesn't have imperfections on it.  Did I ever say crap records aren't or weren't made on good hardware?

Hey Adam,

My statement was deliberately as short as possible to be provocative but it's a point I stand behind.  Don't add tubes/tranformers/mojo/fairy dust in an effort to "fix" poor digital, it does not work.  The antidote to too much salt is not a bunch of sugar.

Alongside that I would say one should absolutely use any flavor they like in the creation of music, I have 3 tube compressors to hand in the studio.  Any flavor is legitimate, from the lofi plug in in Pro Tools to a vintage console, from the cleanest to dirtiest end of the spectrum.

You've gotten an idea in your head that the forum is populated entirely by low distortion spec heads when in reality that's not the case.

As an example you don't know anything about the music I came up  on, the gear I use, the music I like etc etc.  You have an almost religious belief in old/vintage/mojo/organic - I've owned & used enough  of that gear to know how fun it can be but also that it is not where the music is (although to be sure, some music has a hard time existing without the tones used).

I only own one mic, a Neumann U67.  Am I allowed to make records?

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Now before we get into a genre or generational debate, go back, have a read of my lengthy first post in this thread, and see it's about MUCH more than digital vs analog, colour vs. no colour.

I just went back to re-read the post you mentioned.

The idea that there are "police" here for any idea doesn't hold water but if you make baseless technical claims you will be called out by the real engineers in the house. 

I barely get to play music anymore with mastering/acoustics work and family,, maybe 5 mins a day .  When I do, out of the 6 guitars I own the two I play are the very cheapest, not the fancy vintage ones.  It's cool to like whatever you like, you don't need anyone here to approve.

 

[Brian Roth]

please allow me to chime in.

public has spoken.  sales of new classical (digital) are nearly non-existent. 
lets hear the excuses.

meanwhile, Brian's friends in Salinas, Kansas have been selling vintage vinyl, including classical recordings for years.
yes, those records with hiss , distortion, and wow & flutter.

Well,  besides "vintage vinyl" the teams here in Salina have been working hard in other areas, including pressing of new vinyl releases, both from analog sources as well as digital. 

https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&label=analogue%20productions

http://www.qualityrecordpressings.com/


Acoustic Sounds has also licensed recordings to be digitally released in DSD (which can sound amazing if properly transferred).

https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&categoryid=372&LabelID=4082

I do have to say, though, that some masters (old and new) sound amazing when played back on an Ampex ATR-100.  I can't quite put my finger (ear?) on why.

Have $450 for a "record album". but on 15 IPS 1/4"  2 track?

https://store.acousticsounds.com/c/406/1/4_Inch_-_15_IPS_Tape


Bri