Idea of an simple mic pre.

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True. But can you think of an electronics great who doesn't go by a single syllable first name? :) I feel slightly sorry for Bill Whitlock's parents, who I imagine must have thought that William Whitlock had a nice and memorable ring to it, and then he goes and calls himself Bill. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Heinrich Rudolf Hertz

Douglas Self

Amar Bose on the hand is a double barreled single syllable name.

Walking down the street, Paul Klipsch sees Amar Bose, he turns and faces a wall and quietly says "Hey Amar, how's business?".

Amar Bose cups his hands around his mouth and yells "Hey Paul, I can't understand a thing you said".

Paul Klipsch turns towards Amar Bose, cups his hands around his mouth, and yells "Have a nice day!".
 
Jim Williams RIP was an engineer's engineer. A friend of mine also an analog engineer gave a copy of Jim Williams book as a gift.

Somewhere in my mess I have a hand scribbled reply from Jim when I sent him a letter slightly critical of one of his published circuits. Analog engineers like to trick CMOS inverters into low gain linear amplifier stages. I pointed out that using CMOS with both N and P devices turned on could be problematic at higher CMOS device rail voltages. His response was brief and gracious.

JR
 
Heinrich Rudolf Hertz

Douglas Self

Amar Bose on the hand is a double barreled single syllable name.

Walking down the street, Paul Klipsch sees Amar Bose, he turns and faces a wall and quietly says "Hey Amar, how's business?".

Amar Bose cups his hands around his mouth and yells "Hey Paul, I can't understand a thing you said".

Paul Klipsch turns towards Amar Bose, cups his hands around his mouth, and yells "Have a nice day!".
You have Douglas (usually known as Doug) Self among your "greats". I'm surprised. I don't I'm afraid. I have read most of his books, though not his small signal book, yet. While it's great that he managed to make cataloguing his learning process into a lucrative career, I think your heroes have got to be ahead of you in all aspects and be somewhere where you are going to join them at some time in the future. I may be a bit down on him because I find a lot of it frustrating, but I've seen him make mistakes (which have later been corrected) but which I either had got out of the way 5 years earlier or wouldn't have made in the first place. Neither of which is to say he doesn't have a more complete skill set in audio electronics than I do. He does; I'd just like the gap to be wider.
 
You have Douglas (usually known as Doug) Self among your "greats". I'm surprised.

Not hero, but notable with an outsized Footprint.

Also, I didn't think this was to list heros, but those who moved electronics forward a large amount, not "Heros".

Most of my "heros" few even know.

Show of hands, take (in no order):

Hiroyaso Kondo
Susumu Sakuma
Ryohei Kusunoki
Hans Eckmiller
Georg Neumann
Rupert Neve
Manfred von Ardenne
J C Morrison
Malcolm Omar Hawkesford
Keith O. Johnson
Michael W. "Flash" Pflaumer
John "Buddha" Camille
D. E. L. Shorter
Werner Whalter
Earl Geddes
Richard Phillips Feynman

Anyone?

Thor
 
Ok, I put it in (schematics attached). I used 2SK209 models for the J-Fet's and BC550/560C models for the BJT's.

The J-Fet's have a bit higher Gm than the originals, the BJT's have lower Beta than the originals so I think the differences will mostly wash out.

Result for open loop gain:
View attachment 110388

The original circuit offers 94dB open loop gain with appx. 1kHz -3dB point (including Mr Miller). Uncompensated we have around 10kHz -3dB. going to 600 Ohm loading drops open loop gain a few dB, nothing major.

Closed loop gain for the M-15B (which I used as it has more details in the service manual) ranges from ~ 6dB to 56dB, so NFB ranges from 38dB minimum to 88dB at minimum gain.

My suggestion of Mosfet VAS with bootstrap load matches the original above 3kHz and increases LF gain (@ 100Hz to 114dB or 20dB more than original).

With a Darlington VAS + additional input stage degeneration (100R per J-Fet) overall gain is lower but LF gain is boosted.

With gain set to 12.7dB (with input transformer this gives ~ 33dB Gain) the closed loop frequency response is identical. Unless stated this setting (gain control @ 50%)

With 300mV output (nominal signal level according to Manual) and 10kHz all three circuits simulate as ~0.0003% THD with H2 being the only observable harmonic above the "noisefloor" of the sim and the original circuit being marginally superior to both modifications.

Raising signal by 20dB (still 10kHz) gives the original circuit 0.0017% THD with H2 & H3 notable.

The Mosfet version (e.g. mine) has 0.0022% THD and the lowest H3 (~3dB less than Darlington/degenerated and > 6dB lower than original), with Darlington inbetween. Going to 600 Ohm loading does degrade THD somewhat, around 3dB or so.

Simulations at 1kHz or 100Hz would likely favour the modified designs, but the value of these advantages may be questionable.

For noise, the darlington VAS is marginally worse than the other two, nothing I'd loose sleep over. The observed 4nV|/Hz @ 1kHz Ein are not that great, however we need to remember that the 1:10 step-up transformer on the input would lower this tenfold.

Unweighted SNR at maximum gain and 0.3V output level looks -60dB. Note that this is at 56dB Gain (actually 76dB total gain including transformer), so that is a helluvalot gain!.

Realistically, the original circuits offers fine performance that gives up very little to modern monolithic Op-Amp's in the way it is used, despite the very simple and unfashionable design. Non of the suggested "improvements", mine included appear to offer any material improvement.

As is, in the original context it is a great design showcasing that "appropriate technology" designs do not require fashion complexification.

Mind you, in this mixing desk it drives a 47kOhm load (manual value) not 600 Ohm. To turn it into a stand alone "general purpose" Mic-Pre would likely mean to either add additional active output circuit or making changes.

But that is not what this circuit was designed to do, so it's unreasonable to have such expectations.

For a modern design, the discrete OPA may be substituted by a number of different monolithic Op-Amp's, I think the TI OPA828 would make a great substitute. The transformers turn up occasionally in on-line sales and likely are most of what makes the "sound" of the circuit.

Using 2SK2145 for J-Fet & BC850C/BC860C for a modern discrete version using the original design might be fun. Don't forget to avoid loading the output too much, use a buffer to drive 600 Ohm.

Thor
1) Is it possible for you to create a PDF file version of your mic-pre schematic? Or.....

2) Which CAD schematic program did you use to create this schematic? I don't recognize the -- .tsc -- extension with any of the CAD-design programs that I am familiar with. Or.....

3) Can you output a schematic file in either "ALTIUM Designer, CADENCE/OrCAD, CADSTAR, Eagle, EasyEDA, KiCAD, Mentor Graphics "BoardStation" or "Xpedition", PADS, UltiBoard, ZUKEN or some other schematic CAD-design file?

THANKS!!! (PDF would be the most simplest and most universally read file format for everyone here on this forum).

/
 
Which CAD schematic program did you use to create this schematic? I don't recognize the -- .tsc -- extension

Simulation program, not design. Thor wrote previously that he was using TINA-TI for simulation (the Texas Instruments licensed version of TINA simulator).
 
I am surprised we are still permitted to use male and female when referring to connectors.
Many years ago, the french schools were teaching of "contained" and "containing" plugs. I believe it's over, probably because kids that were sent to apprenticeship were instantly corrected to speak the proper language.
 
There is a gif. The absence of values is on purpose. These schematics I post are illustrations for discussions of topologies, concepts and ideas, not fully worked out projects to build.



TINA-TI Simulation tool | TI.com

Thor
[These schematics I post are...not fully worked out projects to build] -- BUMMER!!! Simulations and all of that stuff are for you circuit geeks and nerds, but I'm always on the lookout for a nifty schematic that's "Ready-To-Go" to be built and it's circuitry "sonic wonderfulness" can be thoroughly enjoyed by plugging a microphone in one connector and a recording device into another!!!

OH!!! WELL!!!.....maybe next time, huh?

/
 
I'm always on the lookout for a nifty schematic that's "Ready-To-Go" to be built and it's circuitry "sonic wonderfulness"

Define your own "sonic wonderfulness".

Do you want colour, like the plastic "HOLGA" camera from Hong Kong that is still a cult item, technically imperfect, colour rendition way way past impressionist paintings?

Do you want "neutral" like a modern fully digital japanese camera which corrects lense distortion, white Balance etc perfectly and always delivers a technically perfect image, but with no soul?

Do you want "Leica" Leitz? Minimum controls. Never the technically most perfect image, but always amazing and many of the images that defined the 20th century were from a Leica?

Or maybe something else?

Or one of each?

There are great DIY projects from electric crayons to hardcore objectivist Chip Mic pre's.

I personally like "adjustable sonic personality"...

Thor
 
David Manley
I read a book by him...not full of schematics but reasons why he did certain things...a very helpful 'seat of the pants' inspiration guide. I still cannot afford his gear...but that's OK because now I can build my own !
 

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