Yes Jeremy, I realized that by exchanging with other members...
I think so too. Thank for you input
If only two mics... ?
- Thread starter Emmathom
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RCAguy
Well-known member
Has anyone tried a pair of Josephson C42 ($1250) cardioids? For classical, during capture or post, the 4dB presence will likely need flattening, along with restoring the LF proximity compensation to flat.
PS: I use Schoeps CCM3 hot omni’s in a sphere with CCM8 bi’s coincident on either side, then in post mix for any forward polar pattern (after correcting the fig8’s LF proximity compensation).
PS: I use Schoeps CCM3 hot omni’s in a sphere with CCM8 bi’s coincident on either side, then in post mix for any forward polar pattern (after correcting the fig8’s LF proximity compensation).
I would also suggest to have a different set of cardioid and omni mics!
For omni - NT5 omni capsule is pretty good with very low noise.
Cardioid - maybe just stick with your WA, but seem a little noisy. I would use my TLM193 - these are true "allround" mics, especially in ORTF you can put everything in front of them. But budget ... the smaller Austrian Audio is probably a good choice. Everything from Lewitt I know has a distinct sound. That's the reason I own a pair but I would not use it as main mics. Sometimes you can get used AKG C480 with different capsules for a good price - these are one of the most linear and lowest noise small membrane mics available.
I like to use things like ORTF but stack omnis right next to the main mics for the low end and blend them in. Or Big AB when the location can do it, then you still have the cardioids if you have solos or singers.
But one thing is sure with microphones - buy cheap and it get's expensive. It's better to save for the mic you need in your situation and use it the next 30 years as going through 3 iterations of more expensive ones to finally land at the mic you initially wanted to buy ;-)
I would save for a pair of (used) TLM193 in your situation and meanwhile
*) use the WA as main mics and get a pair of omnis (NT5 or similar)
*) get an additional WA-84 premium Stereo set with the complete capsule set - then you have 4 cardioid and 2 omni capsules and 4 bodies. You can do a lot with such a setup - but you need to be sure that you keep on with these mics cause for 900,- you should be able to get already one used TLM193 or a pair of OC-18 with some luck.
For omni - NT5 omni capsule is pretty good with very low noise.
Cardioid - maybe just stick with your WA, but seem a little noisy. I would use my TLM193 - these are true "allround" mics, especially in ORTF you can put everything in front of them. But budget ... the smaller Austrian Audio is probably a good choice. Everything from Lewitt I know has a distinct sound. That's the reason I own a pair but I would not use it as main mics. Sometimes you can get used AKG C480 with different capsules for a good price - these are one of the most linear and lowest noise small membrane mics available.
I like to use things like ORTF but stack omnis right next to the main mics for the low end and blend them in. Or Big AB when the location can do it, then you still have the cardioids if you have solos or singers.
But one thing is sure with microphones - buy cheap and it get's expensive. It's better to save for the mic you need in your situation and use it the next 30 years as going through 3 iterations of more expensive ones to finally land at the mic you initially wanted to buy ;-)
I would save for a pair of (used) TLM193 in your situation and meanwhile
*) use the WA as main mics and get a pair of omnis (NT5 or similar)
*) get an additional WA-84 premium Stereo set with the complete capsule set - then you have 4 cardioid and 2 omni capsules and 4 bodies. You can do a lot with such a setup - but you need to be sure that you keep on with these mics cause for 900,- you should be able to get already one used TLM193 or a pair of OC-18 with some luck.
thor.zmt
Well-known member
thor.zmt
Well-known member
Meaning a book was written that the vast majority of Decca engineers had zero input into is now the official reference.
If you enquire on the ways used to skin a cat, you find you get as many ways to skin a cat as you ask cat skinners. Some may be minor, others dramatic. Still all these different ways, the end result is a lifeless cat, cleaved from it's skin.
I suspect every single real engineer recording at Decca not only read the score (and could read it), attended and possibly recorded (on old tape stock) the rehearsals but also fettled the set-up to be just so. Standardisation be damned.
In East Germany with the communist secret police breathing down our necks we certainly did that.
I have to say, Decca has good consistency on recording quality and a rather high average quality. But even so, some recordings stand out as exceptional either way.
Thor
k brown
Well-known member
It's clear you have no idea who John Dunkerley is . . .
________
I'm really mystified why so many insist on a wide, loosely goosey definition of the Decca Tree; it was very clearly defined by the people who invented it, and wasn't any old triangle of any old mics.
There isn't anything 'more ways to skin a cat' about it than there is about ORTF, DIN, NOS, etc. There was a bit more variation in the Tree at Decca, but it was quite 'standardized' there whether you like it or not.
Use any tri-config with any mics you want, it just won't be a Decca Tree. Same if you use a pair of subcardioids 5" apart, aimed 90 degrees, it isn't ORTF, DIN, or NOS.
If you shoehorn a Chevy small block into Ford truck, it's no longer a Ford, is it?
________
I'm really mystified why so many insist on a wide, loosely goosey definition of the Decca Tree; it was very clearly defined by the people who invented it, and wasn't any old triangle of any old mics.
There isn't anything 'more ways to skin a cat' about it than there is about ORTF, DIN, NOS, etc. There was a bit more variation in the Tree at Decca, but it was quite 'standardized' there whether you like it or not.
Use any tri-config with any mics you want, it just won't be a Decca Tree. Same if you use a pair of subcardioids 5" apart, aimed 90 degrees, it isn't ORTF, DIN, or NOS.
If you shoehorn a Chevy small block into Ford truck, it's no longer a Ford, is it?
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Hi JF, I've already got 3 different SDC pairs :
- WA84 cardio pair
- Line Audio OM1 omni pair
- DIY Schoeps-like cardio pair (hi-end circuit / Superlux capsules)
and a nice LDC multi pair : a tweaked SC1100 with Ari K47flat and they sound great (almost same frequency response than a TLM193 in a comparaison test with pink noise)
Maybe, but as I said I want to lighten my setup and in the mean time make some money (because I need some and I'm not ashamed to confess it)
You're right indeed ! but since I've already got my mics (and that I do my recordings most of the time for free - because the classical musicians I can pretend to reach won't ever pay for recording)
Not here in France ! a TLM193 (1500€ brand new) costs 1000€ each (used but in nice condition)
Anyway thanx for your input !
Regards
These mic prices ... I paid €900,- (without tax) for a NEW TLM193 in 2014.
So you already have one pair of multi pattern mics which you like the sound? Sell the rest - done. MAybe give it a paint job so it doesn't say t-bone ;-). You won't get a lot for the DIY mic anyways.
I would suggest to keep one pair of "real" omnis in addition, OM1 would do it.
When it's a hobby without a return of money - use what you have and concentrate on the recording process. It's not about the last 5dB of noise when the recording is not going on sale ;-)
And when in the future some more serious (paid) gigs come their way you still can upgrade your mics.
p.s.: Any infos about your superlux diy? I have their ORTF small membrane mic and while the electronics is pretty bad/noisy they sound SERIOUSLY good.
Btw this would be a mic where I would put omnis next to the capsules and blend them in for low frequencies.
So you already have one pair of multi pattern mics which you like the sound? Sell the rest - done. MAybe give it a paint job so it doesn't say t-bone ;-). You won't get a lot for the DIY mic anyways.
I would suggest to keep one pair of "real" omnis in addition, OM1 would do it.
When it's a hobby without a return of money - use what you have and concentrate on the recording process. It's not about the last 5dB of noise when the recording is not going on sale ;-)
And when in the future some more serious (paid) gigs come their way you still can upgrade your mics.
p.s.: Any infos about your superlux diy? I have their ORTF small membrane mic and while the electronics is pretty bad/noisy they sound SERIOUSLY good.
Btw this would be a mic where I would put omnis next to the capsules and blend them in for low frequencies.
1500€ brand new in 2024
No, not a lot I fear...
Yes just bought my pair a month ago : that's sufficient for me (no paid for what I do)
Agree
Sure
This brand does serious work, indeed. And for a terrific quality/price ratio. I have the first version of their ORTF (S502) and did a great job with it ! When your record an ensemble (3-5 musicians) @ 2-3 meters you get sufficient level to avoid any noise from the mic itself (and you don't even ear it blend in the music)... What ref. is your Superlux ORTF ? 1rst version or MkII ? @MicUlli opened a thread on this MkII topic
That's what I intend to do on my last recording. A sextet in a good sounding room (however too dull). My friend came with his Schoeps pair (CMT30 body + M934C capsule) and I set my OM1 aside... but the main thing is that the Schoeps don't need any low renforcement !!! These mics are incredible ! I tried to add my omnis in the mix but I had to admit that it just added blur in the stereo image and forgot about it...
thor.zmt
Well-known member
thor.zmt
Well-known member
Superlux is the own brand of a huge OEM in China. They make all sorts of expensive stuff for major "brands".
Superlux is the same stuff priced based on their cost.
In China I often had a full superlux Mic-set on stage (including drum kit) and found them excellent.
Many of their headphones are are also not bad at all. The only issue is, everything Superlux is not original work, but at best derivative and mostly straight up copied and often (for lower cost items) with the classic "Chinese" quality fade. Of course the same applies to pretty much anything MIC.
Thor
