I'm Out... (changed)

[bluebird]

Why can't people express they're ideas without making slight personal attacks. Seems easy. We're gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Its heating up and the information is getting lost in the vitriol. I like drama like the next person, but it hurts to see "the family" spit at each other.

Nobody is going to convince the other side here. Utility of the discourse is for educating people. Its very valuable.

I don't like trump as much as the next liberal, but I like and respect the people here that do. I don't know why that can't be a mutual fact. It can.

Its embarrassing that it seems were no better than the mob of chicken heads clucking away on the rest of the internet. But we are better than that, I know it.
Its doesn't require holding hands and watching rainbows together, simply leave out the personal attacks in the information, that's it.

Not trying to ride the proverbial high horse either, I can be quite the asshole in normal life. But this forum doesn't require that type of energy. Save the asshole energy for real life, lol.

I don't want to preach, so that's the last thing I'll say about it. I'll just quit checking in if it stays this ugly. But seriously, chill the f**k out.

 

[FarisElek]

Maybe it's because the level of right you're experiencing as opposed to others like myself. They're completely resistant to facts because they've got tons of fake facts from youtube and neo-nazi publications like Breitbart fueling their hate and fear of average people

If I was to respond to your comment like someone from my family i'd say:

'WHATEVER, YOU COMMIE! YOU GO AND GRAB YOUR ANTIFA FRIENDS THAT ARE STARTING FIRES AROUND CALIFORNIA AND KILLING COPS IN CITIES AROUND THE WORLD RIGHT NOW AND JUMP OFF A CLIFF. WHITE LIVES MATTER. BLUES LIVES MATTER. TRUMP2020.'

This why it's so easy to get extremely upset and defensive with the Trump cult. I do however agree that it would be nice if we could put our differences aside and give each other respect, but there is one side intentionally disrespecting basically the entire educated, artist, and minority communities of our country. So I'm not sure how to thoughtfully proceed at this point.

 

[fazer]

Well there you go. Just have to get your digs in no matter what the thread is about .  The diy dream seems to be over.  I guess you stay out of the brewery.  It’s just not that important at this time. 

 

[boji]

Posts that are of a political nature should not be the main reason for visiting or adding to GDIY.  Does anyone take issue with this perspective?

BB:
Absent stricter rules on 'hot potato' topics, all we really have control over is the choice of who to speak/respond to.
Of course it's easy to suggest adding rules when not the one tasked with having to enforce them. 

To the lovers of political 'dialogue':
GDIY has served for years as a primary knowledge base for audio enthusiasts, and continually creates cycles of teaching/learning for anyone that comes to it with that objective.  The fact that we can name the political conceits of many members (Edit: myself included!) brings absolutely nothing to the love we all have for audio-related design and practice, so please, consider the reason for GDIY's existence before writing something that may turn members away. 

We all know it's much easier to destroy relationships than preserve them.
If each of us are in some ways sacred; deserving of respect for the limited time we have on earth (of all places spent here and not elsewhere!), why should the forums where these sacred people go to type out ideas not also be treated with respect?

 

[bluebird]

Maybe it's because the level of right you're experiencing as opposed to others like myself.

Ok, I see your point. I don't think so, but I see your point and respect it.

BB:
Absent stricter rules on 'hot potato' topics, all we really have control over is the choice of who to speak/respond to.
Of course it's easy to suggest adding rules when not the one tasked with having to enforce them. 

Ahh yes, good point, I just learned something. 

We all know it's much easier to destroy relationships than preserve them.
If each of us are in some ways sacred; deserving of respect for the limited time we have on earth (of all places spent here and not elsewhere!), why should the forums where these sacred people go to type out ideas not also be treated with respect?

Powerful valuable stuff.

I already got my moneys worth from this post. It was easy, some things I said were challenged and I learned from it. I don't see what so hard about applying that to everything else.

P.S.
Everyone has a boiling point, someone said some shit about my daughter once and I cracked. I wasn't able to take the criticism, because of the way it was delivered. I could have had my mind changed about that particular subject if the party involved wasn't so much of an asshole. So again, lets just lower the asshole-ness.  I was a little too emotional about the George Floyd stuff but was able to step back and again learn another point of view. I'm afraid we're gonna screw up these opportunities, that's why I'm whining about it.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Bluebird,
I don't know if this helps, but after our own wee interaction on the thread I posted on September 11th, I took what you said, and also what I'd written, into consideration.    I appreciated the connection.

Both yesterday and today I'd wanted to respond to a couple of threads in the brewery here.  I wrote and rewrote several replies but, ultimately, didn't post any.    I couldn't find a way to say what I wanted to say as kindly as I'd have liked  so I just decided not to bother.

It was probably for the best so, thanks.

 





 

 

[bluebird]

Lol, cool, I don't want to impede on anyone's free speech or anything in case that's what people think I'm trying to pose... Just that there is usually a better way to say things, and perhaps if there's not (as you probably wisely concluded) , its better not said. But that part is not up to anyone but you.
I do think there is a feeling of remorse on particularly strongly made opinions, after the fact. We're emotional beings, so its to be expected, but we are also self aware and very intelligent, with the ability to submit to a higher self, be it spiritual or reasonable. I'm ready for anyone to tell me I'm an idiot, and I'll want to know that because I'm back to learning things in my life, full circle. From knowing everything, to knowing nothing, to knowing just a little and wanting to know more.

 

[FarisElek]

I think if we can all have the mentality of your last two sentences constantly in our daily lives the world would be a better place. It's a rarity for many to admit they don't know what they're talking about and be receptive to a new perspective. My cup is empty, but I do know hate and fear is not the answer and that as Gene Clark said, there are two sides to every story.

 

[rackmonkey]

I’d call this a small bit of progress. Thanks, Bluebird.

I stay away from politics on the forum, but I’ll admit that the title of this post was too good to pass up.

 

[john12ax7]

I think the idea to make this place an audio first forum is a good one.  Put an order of magnitude on it., you need 10 technical posts for every 1 political one. 

The team politics thing in general gets rather tiring. I just don't see people taking enough thoughtful consideration of opposing viewpoints.  One side is not always right.

We need  leaders who are intelligent,  logical,  open minded,  reasonable people  with integrity, regardless of party affiliation. Granted they are in short supply.  But that doesn't preclude us from aspiring to that being the standard of discussion here.

 

[Brian Roth]

I grew up in a family which were active in politics, although back in "those days" it wasn't a screaming match like it is these days.

My wife passed away six years ago and she hated politics....she was quite wise.

When the politicos went on attack via local TV ads, Debbie  came up with this quip against  "Joe Blow" (and will make sense to folks in some parts of the USA):

"Joe Blow don't love Jesus, and Joe Blow's feet stink!"

It gets much nastier nowadays.....  Glad I am semi retired and doing projects that I choose. 

Bri

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Posts that are of a political nature should not be the main reason for visiting or adding to GDIY.  Does anyone take issue with this perspective?

I do.
I've decided some time ago not to respond to any US political subject in this group, because I'm not american. Anything I could say could be met by a disqualifying answer: "you're not american, so whaddyaknow".
Even subjects that I feel entitled to have an opinion on, I tread carefully, Brexit, Poland, Covid....
I think there are many people, even in this group, that don't understand that not everybody has the same history, the same background, the same social environment, and what we take for granted is not by other people.
Many forget that some people have not known the Age of Enlightenment.
I must say I'm quite disappointed to see that most of the traffic on GDIY is in political discussions, when it should be in the technical subjects.
Back to the soldering iron...

 

[boji]

Sorry Abby, what exactly is it you take issue with?  Supporting statements appear to put us in agreement.

Is it that it does not go far enough to remove all the chit chat?

Edit: Wouldn't be heartbroken if the brewery was nixed.  All the people who flock to it would either return to the soldering iron, books or learning, or go find some other place to burn time with political rhymes, hellbent on bending minds.

 

[iomegaman]

I came to this place many years ago after being a moderator on Mixermans forum at ProRecSound...back before it got torched and Mark Herman  threatened legal action because things got WAAAAAY out of hand...I was a moderator in the "basement"...which was basically their version of the Brewery...Mixerman teamed me up with a co-moderator who was diametrically my opposite at the time (I was a conservative republican, he was conspiracy believing liberal, we were actually good friends but played against each other on the forum)...

I saw in real time political and conspiracy and narcissistic style threads devolve into actual legal threats where people hired lawyers (I actually supported Mark Herman's approach at the time since he let me know the forums actually COST him money, he made his coin in print)...Mixerman and several others went off the deep end...I mean radically off into conspiracy land over posts...(not in the basement but in other places)...

It devolved into an organised flame war against Gearlsuts and the Massenbeurg forum, where George finally had enough and shut his down... Jules was much less inclined to be affected...he saw the wars driving up ad counts so he didn't care although there were a few times he banned stuff that was essentially spamming...

When I came here I was tired of all of that...i wanted to learn and be among posters I respect...I have the utmost respect for every member on this forum (minus any that might have practiced financial maleficence)...

Every person who posts has my respect and I try to see their perspective because on some level where they are coming from is valid and I do not know the journey they have taken to arrive at whatever beliefs they hold.

I have changed a huge amount since my ProRecSound days fighting with Fletcher and Doz and MM and laughing at Slipperman and StudioJimi (who remains one of my oldest friend sform those days)...

I still follow the teachings of a wandering middle-eastern Shaman/Rabbi who was killed for political and religious reasons...but I no longer support the tribalism the religion that evolved from that culture presents...ideologically I find lots of ideas in most political camps that I can support and lots more that I find as viruses.

For the most part I think its a wonder just to be alive at this time...imagine all that we are and all that we can connect to in this age...why poison your mind with anger over things that will go away in a year or two?

 

[living sounds]

iomegaman, that's interesting about the other forums, thanks!

I don't think it is only anger, and I really don't think it will all be over in 2 years. I would hope so, but I don't see it. I think things will get a lot worse before they get better.

This board is as likely a place for discussions as any other. I have learned a lot here, not only on the electronics front, but also about political and cultural ideas and styles and their differences, and I am intrigued by many ideas and arguments from both sides. I think we are keeping it civil for the most part, not exactly the norm these days, online or offline. I see it as a learning experience.

I have learned that people from the right react to was they perceive as an attack on their identity, their way of life, tradition, culture. Liberals like me react to was we perceive as (and, where applicable, science informs us about) threats to the future of our planet, social cohesion and upward mobility, the achievements of the Enlightenment, culture and diversity, etc.

These are conflicting points of view and almost impossible to find together over. But argueing here in a civil manner is way better than keeping to  virtual or real echo chambers, I think. And if one goes beyond civil they should re-think their position and imagine themselves in someone elses shoes. And learn something.

 

[iomegaman]

iomegaman, that's interesting about the other forums, thanks!

I don't think it is only anger, and I really don't think it will all be over in 2 years. I would hope so, but I don't see it. I think things will get a lot worse before they get better.

This board is as likely a place for discussions as any other. I have learned a lot here, not only on the electronics front, but also about political and cultural ideas and styles and their differences, and I am intrigued by many ideas and arguments from both sides. I think we are keeping it civil for the most part, not exactly the norm these days, online or offline. I see it as a learning experience.

I have learned that people from the right react to was they perceive as an attack on their identity, their way of life, tradition, culture. Liberals like me react to was we perceive as (and, where applicable, science informs us about) threats to the future of our planet, social cohesion and upward mobility, the achievements of the Enlightenment, culture and diversity, etc.

These are conflicting points of view and almost impossible to find together over. But argueing here in a civil manner is way better than keeping to  virtual or real echo chambers, I think. And if one goes beyond civil they should re-think their position and imagine themselves in someone elses shoes. And learn something.

I completely agree, I think its probably not wise to bury your head in the sand and pretend things will get better...I tend to research the crap out of everything (and bounce it off my 5 kids who are a diverse lot ranging from District Attorney to school teacher to social worker to my son who is an engineer working on one of the top 10 cures (according to FEMA) for Covid via Dupont...as a family we research everything and have done it for life, my oldest child is one of the leading DA's in her county, one of only 3 who are allowed to write wire taps because she crosses every T and dot's every i and researched the hell out of every angle...

But even with our common habits of study we do not all agree...but we all get along...#2 and #5 love to argue with one another but at the end of the day they can violently disagree yet love each other deeply...

Covid is with us for a while...even on the fast track my son is working on he says the soonest we will see ANY kind of vaccine is late spring...we cannot afford to ignore reality and must depend on science in spite its conflicting per reviews...we simply have no other choice...but we must decide to read and position ourselves in respectful ways towards people AND humanities progress.

 

[CJ]

people are like resistors , some are 0.47 ohms, others are 10 meg ohm,

some blow up at 1/8 watt, others can take 10 watts RMS all day, 

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Sorry Abby, what exactly is it you take issue with?  Supporting statements appear to put us in agreement.

Sorry, language barrier. Actually, I support this perspective.

Edit: Wouldn't be heartbroken if the brewery was nixed.  All the people who flock to it would either return to the soldering iron, books or learning, or go find some other place to burn time with political rhymes, hellbent on bending minds.

Agree. I think the original idea in the Brewery was to let out some steam and talk about trifle, which is a good thing, but I believe we should ban politics and religion. There are much better sites for that.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Edit: Wouldn't be heartbroken if the brewery was nixed.  All the people who flock to it would either return to the soldering iron, books or learning, or go find some other place to burn time with political rhymes, hellbent on bending minds.

A quick search of who is posting where, reveals that the brewery is extremely popular with some of the frequent ranters here.

The rest of us can just ignore the noise if it bothers us and let them vent to each other. In my judgement being able to release pent up anger is more healthy than suppressing it.

This too will pass.

JR

PS: even their angry traffic may generate ad revenue for the forum so thank y'all.

 

[hodad]

some of the frequent ranters here.

JR

The "ranters"--yes, I see.  Thank you for sharing that blanket ad hominem. 

I guess calmly insulting those you don't agree with is preferable anyway.  The banality of evil and all that.