John Howard Speech - He got Balls of steel !

[Kid Squid]

Bore Da chaps,
Just saw this,

Prime Minister John Howard - Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.
"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.
Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should clear off. "Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."
"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. ?This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.
This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!
Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.
If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.
This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'. If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU chose."

Before i start - I'm not Religeous in anyway shape or form......

What do you reckon of this ?
I wish our PM had nuts like that ...... :thumb:

How long will it be before the race police are knocking my door ?
Here's my say - F**k all to do with anyone's colour, but don't try and impose beliefs, that were , maybe OK in the dark ages, but today - you gotta be joking....
WAKE UP PEOPLE !

Best part is, He's probably been tagged as a racist , but all he said is true.
Fuck all this Race shit, start living in the real world, don't hide behind Politically Correct bullshit, face facts, no Excuses.........
Nothing to do with race - it's about 'law'
F**k all to do with being a RACIST.

The U.K. is F**ked, the most it has ever been.....
A Nanny State of the highest order, when all that seems to matter is raising taxes,while 'stealthily' f**king the people that actually do a bit of work, and all the politicians want to do is sort out their own, Not giving a toss about what is really happening on the street.. (nothing new),
F**k Gordon Brownhead, and the rest of his Scum government.
Have some balls you bunch of C**ts.

If you want sharia law - then piss off back to the places where it happens - only problem being, they get no Housing, apart from a mud hut, no 'freedom', and most importantly, no 'free state' to sponge off , NHS, income support / dole.....etc
who's the suckers ?..........

Australia's looking more and more inviting everyday....... :thumb:

Have a nice day.... :thumb:

 

[Kid Squid]

Sorted.

 

[keefaz]

I agree, you have to respect the laws where you live, else you can not have a peacefull social life

But I lost any hope in politic men long time ago, and I think there are some interest behind his speech. Recently, Tony Blair converted to catholiscism and our president try to put the religion in politic life which is traditionnaly secular in France since 1789 (french revolution). I don't know what all of this is about but I know that both men are not interested in religion but in power instead, time will tell.

 

[JohnRoberts]

For the record John Howard was voted out of office in the last election, down under.

People should be allowed to practice their own religion, but not their own law.

UK and Europe is struggling with an immigrant community that hasn't integrated into the local culture but maintained islands of their own "old ways."

There needs to be balance between the old and new, and uniform administration of law. This is one of the several related problems facing the world in the next decades and is not going to resolve itself if ignored or accommodated by wishy washy politicians. That said there are no simple answers but enforcing laws is a pretty obvious one.

Moderate Islam need to stand up reject their own radical elements. That's why the radicals murder moderate leaders like Bhutto. Their biggest threat is from within.

JR

 

[3nity]

Here in Canada is almost the same problem...i'm an immigrant but i'have never tried to change the laws or rules in my favor......Religious beliefs are amongst biggest social and politics debates...Is true that i have my own culture, values and creeds but i accomodate in the Canadian society.

It's a shame when i see other immigrants like me protesting again a country that did open their doors to us.

 

[Gustav]

[quote author="Kid Squid"]Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state[,,,] If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.[/quote]

?


Gustav

 

[Stagefright13]

I think religion has caused more wars and death than explosives and nuclear weapons and even disease combined. Holy wars have been going on since recorded time as far as I can tell. And still do today. Are these people uneducated? Or brainwashed...

I think people should put their faith in mankind. And respect the country you live in. And it's laws. Especially if you moved to a new country. Religion is your own beliefs. If you have a religion then your just gonna have to adjust it to your countries laws if they conflict. I gave up religion when I was a kid and discovered that the world is indeed not flat as the bible suggested. I spent my years in catholic school! To me it was kinda like discovering Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny aren't real...

I can see many of his points except having to be Christian aspect. But would vote for him on the good principles that he stated. And yeah he has some cast iron nuts for stating that. More power to him!

Hopefully I didn't offend anyone. If so I am sorry...

Wow I was very opinionated today lol! Glad it is brewery.

Might as well keep going lol. As far as Race there is no superior race. All have won Nobel peace prizes! And achieved giant leaps in science etc! And every other field for that matter. "Why can't we all just get along?"

PS. Kidsquid is cool :thumb:

 

[Ghengis]

I'm not entirely sure where this has come from - I think it may be excerpts that could have possibly been taken out of context and joined together. I think the email has stemmed from SPAM or at least someone's opinion.

Here is the full transcript from the treasurer at the time (Peter Costello) where one of the quotes has been lifted http://www.treasurer.gov.au/DisplayDocs.aspx?pageID=&doc=transcripts/2005/123.htm&min=phc

I think from memory some of the comments may have been in reaction to a particular cleric in sydney and his comments about what women wore as clothing and they invitation to men, referring to them as uncovered meat.

It seems most of the comments are 2-3 years old and have been brought together to form what seems like being a bit of an anti-mulsim spiel.

 

[Johan]

we had a similar case in Sweden about six months back, where a small group of Muslims wanted to live under Sharia law. the response from our government was something that would translate to english into "according to our constitution, everyone is equal under the law, so having different law's for different people would be against the constitution and therefor against the law"...end of discussion...
...that said..we have a pretty big part of the population being imigrants from Muslim country's, and I have to say that the wast majority of them are just decent people
j

 

[Seedysea]

Before this goes out of control as I fear it may due to the highly volatile subject matter I would like to critique the opening post by Kid Squid.

The speech that this thread is premised upon is an invidious type of fake. It is a mix of the speech Howard gave and an article by an American.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/australia.asp

I do not want to comment on the motivations for creating this type of myth other than I do not believe it was done in good faith.

The Howard speech is several years old and as John Roberts points out, the Australian people decided to vote his government out of office late last year. Howard himself became only the second Prime Minister to lose his own seat in an election.

This is a complex and charged issue with many problems and no obvious solutions.

Please, please, please check your facts as closely as your circuit boards everyone before starting threads that could create ill-feeling, fear and loathing.

 

[keefaz]

[quote author="Seedysea"]
This is a complex and charged issue with many problems and no obvious solutions.[/quote]
That's so true, in France there is a lot of African immigrants who arrive in France in clandestinity, helped by country like Libya and I suspect by some big french companies too. Because they work hard for a cheap salary and do not benefit from french worker rights and healthcare system (as they are not french citizen). Their situation is convenient for the big companies as they could employ them nearly as slave, they can use pressure to them and don't have to pay french taxes on salary (which are hudge).
Those african people often come from Muslim countries and do not have the time to learn french education, they work nearly all the time...
I see how the radical Muslim can manipulate those people, because they lost hope regarding their social situation

 

[radiance]

It's kind of mind boggling that once something is written down (on paper or internet or whatever) a lot of people loose their ability to judge what's true or false and just blindly believe what's stated. Espacialy when quoting things from the internet one should do some thorough research.

We had some right wing politicians in the Netherlands who quoted translated parts from the Koran which, after some research, did not even exist in the Koran or were very manipulated and out of context.

 

[Kid Squid]

Hiya Chaps,

All your critiques' are appreciated, I believe in free speech.

1st thing - I'm not into anyones God / Gods, but i'm not against them either..

2nd thing - Race - i believe, if you're a c**t, then you're a c**t, no matter what colour you are - white pink, blue, black, spotted....... I have loads, n loads of friends, of MANY different races.....

3rd thing, I agree that this 'letter' is old, possibly hashed together / false, and perhaps we'll never know all of the details, but my POINT is,

ANYONE who says this sort of thing, is immediatly classed as a racist , against the Muslims and whoever...
but it's o.k. for the radical clerics, to come over, sponge off our state,carry out hate rallies in 'our' streets, condeming the hand that feeds them...
'attack' our troops as they lie injured in 'OUR' hospitals, attack the beliefs of the british people ( note. British people - all 'integrated ' nationalities living under our law.)

I wonder what would happen if the boot was on the other foot ?

Do you think I could get away with my 'western' beliefs, in any of the radical hardcore states ?

This is the cause of my Beef.

Why can't people handle truths.......

Why do people put their beliefs into something that was written a few thousand years ago, when you can't even belief what is written today ?.....

:thumb:

 

[JohnRoberts]

This is IMO a hugely important issue without simple answers.

One of the problems with discussing Sharia Law is that there is no single "law" but sundry interpretations of the primary text as passed down. Jihad for some is an introspective religious pursuit, not parking planes into the top floors of buildings. I read recently that some old manuscripts, once thought lost, have been rediscovered. There is some resistance to studying them to see what was literally written, which will no doubt also be subject to more interpretation.

At the risk of sounding condescending, IMO Islam needs to mature to where other religions are that tolerate and coexist with each other. No western religion is without some bad behavior in their past (even not so distant) history. This peaceful coexistence is already occurring for huge moderate populations all around the world.

One modern concern with radical interpretations of that religion being taught to disenfranchised and impressionable youth is that it incites them to illegal behavior. This is problematic as it conflicts with the right of protected speech. It's pretty much OK to say almost anything. Clamping down because of what people are thinking and might do is scarily close to some bad science fiction. Smarter folks than I need to define where the line is, but I suspect many are on the wrong side of that line and surely practicing free speech with bad intent. If someone wants to hurt you, that isn't actionable, but if they are actively working to that end, that is.

I am optimistic that providing larger populations with improved standards of living and freedom to control their own destiny will take fuel from the fires stoked by these bad actors. Eliminating safe havens for them to operate from will further disrupt their militaristic operations, but the final solution must come from within Islam, to reject this bad element.

We need to be careful in the process of protecting our interests that we don't become the convenient idiot that serves as a popular enemy for these bad actors to rally support against while taking the spot light off their true agenda and bad behavior. It seems we are that convenient idiot these days so perhaps our allies can take the opportunity to address some of the root issues, while we engage the bad actors directly. At best we will fight them to a stalemate. (Note: I don't discount the contributions of many countries especially in Afghanistan),

Interesting times.

JR

 

[barclaycon]

This is a sore point in England right now because the leader of the Church of England (the Archbishop of Canterbury) recently made a speech where he suggested that perhaps we should adopt some aspects of Sharia Law.
He was told in no uncertain terms to shut the f**k up!
There is a principle in this country, going back many hundreds of years, that the law and religion are kept seperate. In Sharia, religion IS the law (enforced by unelected zealots).
We don't want it!
Only a complete moron (like Rowan Williams) would be unaware of the strength of feeling about this in England.
Basically, if you want to live your life along Sharia principles then you are free to do so. Just don't try and force it upon everyone else.
That's it. Said my piece. I'm going for a lie down now.