Jordan Peterson cult followingz

[boji]

So has anyone around here as of late drank the Jordan Peterson koolaid?  I'm fairly sold.

One of my favorite conversations of 2018:

https://youtu.be/ea4mEnsTv6Q

 

[Bo Deadly]

I have no idea who these guys are but I'm confused as hell. They seem very rational and logical and then suddenly bring up some metaphysical weirdness. He asks - "why does there have to be evil"? Why does there have to be a reason for evil? Odd.

 

[boji]

Ha, yeah glad you liked it scott2000.    I've become more centrist in my political persuasions lately due to him.
His biblical lectures on YT take on a very logical, pragmatic perspective that is hard to not appreciate, even if you're an atheist.

 

[boji]

Squarewave, ever listen to Joseph Campbell back in the day?  Peterson's merging of utility and myth is very next-level to me. 

Sacred shared space has got such a bad rap in the last decade, and I think its increasing absence is why the world feels so untethered as of late.

If I want to take seriously the history our laws, language, government and most importantly, art, I'm finding that without seeing it through the lense of metaphysics, I'm not able to appreciate the whole picture.

 

[desol]

He's pretty cool. I've never listened to him at depth, but he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He totally went to war with the alt-gender community, as he refused to refer to people by their made up gender specific alt preferences. I think that's where his initial notoriety came from. Kinda funny...  ;D

 

[Tubetec]

I had a wee listen to the clip ,but its way late here and my concentration is gone . I'll have another cut off it in the morning and see if any pearls of wisdom are revealed . Its nice sometimes to ponder the metaphysical world and try and draw links between cause and effect in the everyday world .It doesnt seem like any kind of proof in scientific terms is even possible with alot of this ,so its kind of a 'next best theory gains ground over what was once pure superstition' type thing.

I wonder if those two chonged up a couple of monster bonghits where the convo would end up 

 

[Tubetec]

Lot of witchcraft going on in the medical alright Scott,specially 'headmeds' Dept. My witchdoctor once told me Id most likely end up in with the headbangers unless I took her pills ,which later were linked to diabeties and a class action law suit ensued against the makers which the people won . Glad to say, I got that ould wagon and her 'slackjaw' meds off my back a  long time ago now and never looked back. 

 

[boji]

He totally went to war with the alt-gender community

Eck, now I'm sounding like an apologist, but to be precise, he 'went to war' over a legislative bill that would legally mandate compelled speech in Canada.  The idea being if someone self-identifies as a unicorn (yes this is real) and you don't use their personal made-up pronoun for properly addressing their unicorn-self, then you could be fined or worse.  To my knowledge, he has no desire to inhibit the freedoms or speech of people in the trans / gender-fluid community.

 

[desol]

Ah...ok. I knew it was somethin like that.

 

[boji]

For you Squarewave (On evil) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLp7vWB0TeY

Ok no more JP flag waving =P

 

[iampoor1]

I like Jordan Peterson. I disagree with his conclusions sometimes but his thought process is hard to fault and he effortlessly merges knowledge of so many diverse branches of study.

I think the biggest turn off of him for some is the fact that he can go on tasngets that seem unrelated for eternity, ties things together abstractly, and then comes to a conclusion. Of course, this is also why people love him.  ;D

 

[living sounds]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/how-dangerous-is-jordan-b-peterson-the-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest

 

[s2udio]

He is quite correct in his statement that
Quote"here is a secret cabal of postmodern neo-Marxists hellbent on destroying western civilization"
That  awful Guardian article is as far leftist as it gets, exactly what JB is lecturing about,and is as far from reality and truth as it gets!
He is not from the extreme right, etc etc..........I wish these narcissistic snowflakes would do some research on facts and modern history.
And please drop the "conspiracy" word, it is used to demonize any critical thinking  that opposes the mainstream media/political
"Bovine Digester" narrative.
21st century humanity seems' to have deep  amnesia, or a large memory hole,forgetting events and facts almost immediately,
We are a few years off accepting an authoritarian dystopian future straight from orwells book.
Wake up and realize all you're politicians are bought and paid for, it matter's not whom you stick a cross in a box for,
Nothing gets better for the slaves, and the 1% get richer and more control, and we are being idiotically complicit in helping them,
Permanently enslave us !, and modern technology,Google,Facebook,Twitter,  just makes the control easier by the year.

 

[Bo Deadly]

For you Squarewave (On evil) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLp7vWB0TeY

Ok no more JP flag waving =P

That's ok. I think this sort of thing is a hoot.

Ok, so to summarize, this is a break-down of the story of Cane and Able as an ancient story that maybe was an attempt to explain human psychology before there were proper academics and that evil originates from people who are haunted by "the infinite" as opposed to the "finite" and just fail to reconcile the "self conscious vulnerabilities of existence" and, as a consequence, they incorrectly choose to "retreat into arrogance" and become "homicidally murderous" (Cane) vs. righteousness, sacrifice and being humble (Able).

Ok. But it could also be that the story of Cane and Able had less to do with helping people face the horror of "the infinite" and more to do with just trying to make people behave and generally not murder each other which no doubt was a serious issue in early times. Ironically, this indoctrination of people into the early cults, that would later become Christianity, turned out to be pretty evil (crusades, inquisitions, sexual exploitation, etc).

The thing that really strikes me about this guys is how he presents everything with a profound sense meaning and enlightenment and seriousness. It's got a little whiff of religion to it. Is this guy religious? I would like to know just so that I know which file cabinet to put this in. I was really worried that he was going to deliver a religious "punch-line" at the end which would make it very religious. Although at the very end he does connect "divinity" and "our entire system of law" in the same sentence which made me twitch a little he didn't to anything obscene. I actually loved the Forrest Gump ending, "That's all I have to say about that".

 

[desol]

From watching a few sporadic things with him over the past few years, I'm starting to think that he's playing off and liking his fame. .02

It's just the look on his face.

 

[living sounds]

He is quite correct in his statement that
Quote"here is a secret cabal of postmodern neo-Marxists hellbent on destroying western civilization"
That  awful Guardian article is as far leftist as it gets, exactly what JB is lecturing about,and is as far from reality and truth as it gets!
He is not from the extreme right, etc etc..........I wish these narcissistic snowflakes would do some research on facts and modern history.
And please drop the "conspiracy" word, it is used to demonize any critical thinking  that opposes the mainstream media/political
"Bovine Digester" narrative.
21st century humanity seems' to have deep  amnesia, or a large memory hole,forgetting events and facts almost immediately,
We are a few years off accepting an authoritarian dystopian future straight from orwells book.
Wake up and realize all you're politicians are bought and paid for, it matter's not whom you stick a cross in a box for,
Nothing gets better for the slaves, and the 1% get richer and more control, and we are being idiotically complicit in helping them,
Permanently enslave us !, and modern technology,Google,Facebook,Twitter,  just makes the control easier by the year.

The Guardian article is nuanced and analytical.  Did you actually read it?

The 1% getting richer due to neo-marxism is an interesting thesis - do you have any facts to back it up?

The fact is, Peterson is mostly chasing phantoms in regard to neo-marxist sentiment.

Obviously there is a totalitarian, authoritarian left, but at this point in history in the West it is a small minority centered at certain university departments. Just like it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. If anything, at this moment there is more of a shift towards structural conservaticism, at least here in Europe, where young people put more importance on family, traditions, personal saftety etc.

And objectively we have been whitnessing decades of increasingly strict criminal laws, tighter security, more surveillance, all traits of conservative authoritarianism.

I understand the fears of people like Peterson and his followers, but they are chasing the wrong tail.

 

[living sounds]

The Guardian article is nuanced and analytical.  Did you actually read it?

The 1% getting richer due to neo-marxism is an interesting thesis - do you have any facts to back it up?

The fact is, Peterson is mostly chasing phantoms in regard to neo-marxist sentiment.

Obviously there is a totalitarian, authoritarian left, but at this point in history in the West it is a small minority centered at certain university departments. Just like it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. If anything, at this moment there is more of a shift towards structural conservaticism, at least here in Europe, where young people put more importance on family, traditions, personal saftety etc.

And objectively we have been whitnessing decades of increasingly strict criminal laws, tighter security, more surveillance, all traits of conservative authoritarianism.

I understand the fears of people like Peterson and his followers, but they are mostly chasing the wrong tail.

Myself, I am certainly a liberal, and to me the identity politics are mostly a distraction from tackling the real problems - wealth and income inequality. I also agree on the negative effects of new technology. But it's not "snowflakes" or "neo-marxists" that are behind that.

 

[living sounds]

But "pseudo-facts" are the issue here. I agree with the assesment, that a lot of things have gotten worse in recent decades. But attributing it to neo-marxists makes no sense. Even if the neo-marxists were plentyfull and the main driver behind the changes the argument made no sense. Why? Because changes in societies are driving by changes in living conditions.

One example: A good explanation for millenials and younger cohorts being more fearfull, less independant and overly sensitive (in other words snowflakes) would be (would, because I have no idea if high quality studies would support either assessment) that people become parents at a later age, have fewer children, have reached a higher living standard and standard of education and thus are more aware of overall dangers and more protective of their children. Consumer culture (another side effect of economic forces) has increased narcicism, new technologies have facilitated a host of socieatal changes etc.

Looking at most of what we perceive as ills from one or another political viewpoint are really just the results of circumstances playing themselves out. Blaming these on groups, especially imagined one, is counterproductive. It doesn't matter if it's Jews, Marxists or Mexicans, they are never the real driver behind what's happening. But neither are any other "men behind the curtain". That's just one more distraction, a misfireing of the human brain trying to make sense of the world but not being evolutionarilly equipped for it.

Peterson is right in accusing certain humanities departsments of pseudo-science, because they have been peddling nonsense. But he doesn't have science behind his analysis either.

 

[boji]

" Because changes in societies are [driven] by changes in living conditions. "

Seems a little circular. Societies change for numerous reasons. One way is by teaching students the politically correct side to be on in a debate.  Postmodernist Neo-marxists are most readily found in college humanities departments in historically liberal colleges. To believe that these teachers do not influence their students thoughts on activism and leftist ideology, you only need look at the fire alarm pulls and protests against free speech whenever a right leaning speaker comes to town. Evergreen, Berkley, and Reed come to mind.

Edit: It used to be that the free exchange of ideas, however controversial, were absolutely essential to developing a student into a balanced individual that can face the world with perspective. Now in liberal educational spheres, it seems everything is being reduced to power, position, and privilege, and the only way to equalize the landscape is not to talk (or listen) but to demand change by cooersment or silencing of the opposition. These tactics are very much from the marxist playbook.

 

[boji]

"The Guardian article is nuanced and analytical."

Only as much as you're willing to believe ad hominem, straw man, and bandwagon attacks are the most effective way to deconstruct and improve someone's bad ideas. Heh.