Klein tools

[scott2000]

A little simple plumbing, adding a T and rt angle allows dropping the active anode (that I already have sitting in a box) in through the top hot water outlet port. This could rescue my current hot water heater whose sacrificial anode is surely already toast.
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That's interesting that you say that. AO Smith instructions have an alternative port to use for a new anode if not able to get the old anode out. I can't recall exactly what it said....

 

[JohnRoberts]

That's interesting that you say that. AO Smith instructions have an alternative port to use for a new anode if not able to get the old anode out. I can't recall exactly what it said....

That makes a lot of sense. It would cost them less than $1 but hurt their long term profit.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

As often happens with these adventures I am still learning. The hot water heater (whirlpool) owners manual suggests that they may have a "heat trap" built into the hot and cold water ports.

This suggests that I might need to add an eternal heat trap*****. These can be as simple as loop in the hot water tubing that blocks the hot/cool water exchange. They also make these with ball check valves or flaps. I do not know what or if is inside my hot water heater but I will talk with my plumber to see if this internal heat trap nipple can be removed.

JR

***** heat traps are clever devices that block convection from allowing denser cooled hot water from flowing back into the output. This wastes a lot of energy as this cooled water gets reheated but keeps cycling back in a cooling/heating loop.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I am quickly losing enthusiasm for trying to remove the stock heat trap from my water heater. I have just realized that it is already 8 years old (with a 6 year warranty). I have seen some web advice about having to use screw extractors to remove stuck heat trap nipples.

Lately I have been seeing some low cost tankless electric hot water heaters for 1/2 the cost of a modest old school tank water heater. Since my house was built with in-wall electric resistance heaters I suspect I have adequate mains power to drive a tankless heater, by repurposing those unused in-wall heater lines, now that I am heating my house with 3.5T of heat pump.

Tankless should waste even less energy, helping me save the planet.

JR

 

[Brian Roth]

I am quickly losing enthusiasm for trying to remove the stock heat trap from my water heater. I have just realized that it is already 8 years old (with a 6 year warranty). I have seen some web advice about having to use screw extractors to remove stuck heat trap nipples.

Lately I have been seeing some low cost tankless electric hot water heaters for 1/2 the cost of a modest old school tank water heater. Since my house was built with in-wall electric resistance heaters I suspect I have adequate mains power to drive a tankless heater, by repurposing those unused in-wall heater lines, now that I am heating my house with 3.5T of heat pump.

Tankless should waste even less energy, helping me save the planet.

JR

Be sure your water supply is relatively free of minerals. 10-15 years ago a friend/client who has a house and then built a studio "out in the boonies". Well water. He installed tankless heaters in both buildings. Within six months both water heaters became so "internally scaled" (according to his plumber) they were useless.

Bri

 

[JohnRoberts]

After seriously over thinking this I have decided to return to patiently waiting for my current hot water heater to fail. I have established that my current heater is roughly 8 years old with a 6 year warranty.

I checked out the tankless heater company whose price was roughly half of established brands. It turns out that they are a manufacturer of tankless water heaters for RVs and are trying to buy into the residential market with low price.

I expect that I should have enough service ampacity since my house was built with four in-wall resistance heaters (no longer used since I installed two heat pumps) but mating that power to a heater could involve a major overhaul of my service drop. I am still waiting for a return phone call from my local electrician when I tried to hire him when I replaced my wall oven years ago. He never got back in touch with me so I installed it myself.

It will be far cheaper to just replace this heater with another standard tank water heater. And even cheaper to wait until it fails. When I drained some water out of it the other day there was no rust apparent in the drained water.

AFAIK my town water is not unusually mineral laden.

JR

 

[scott2000]

Tankless should waste even less energy,

I heard they're maybe not as beneficial here unless using gas but idk. Would guess anything is better than an inefficient heater.

This suggests that I might need to add an eternal heat trap*****. These can be as simple as loop in the hot water tubing that blocks the hot/cool water exchange. They also make these with ball check valves or flaps.

I guess there are also things people add to actually mix the cold and hot to increase hot water capacity...forget how it works .. something like cranking up heat...mixing tank maybe...??
when I get home I'll look ..

hot water heater is a huge hitter on usage in my house .. I've taken cold showers for many years but have watched meter when my wife is in there...crazy movement...
Don't worry, I've watched her too ...much more..lol

 

[JohnRoberts]

I heard they're maybe not as beneficial here unless using gas but idk. Would guess anything is better than an inefficient heater.

The typical tens of gallons hot water tank constantly leaks heat. Mine is well covered with insulation. Heating the water is relatively efficient, keeping it hot is the work. Heat traps cut off one major heat drain due to convection within the plumbing.

I guess there are also things people add to actually mix the cold and hot to increase hot water capacity...forget how it works .. something like cranking up heat...mixing tank maybe...??
when I get home I'll look ..

mixing valves are used to prevent too hot water from scalding users. I have my hot water cranked up to something like 140' to suppress odors.

hot water heater is a huge hitter on usage in my house .. I've taken cold showers for many years but have watched meter when my wife is in there...crazy movement...
Don't worry, I watch her too ...

In theory just heating the water as you use it should waste less heat sitting around hot.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

I just talked to my local plumber about this idea to add a sacrificial anode in thru a "t" fitting at the output port of the hot water heater. The question mark for me was if the stock heat trap nipple inside the water heater was hard to remove. My plumber says no problemo so maybe this project is back on again.

[edit- fittings and external heat trap on order. I already have a powered active anode that I bought years ago but never got the original sacrificial anode removed. /edit]

JR

 

[scott2000]

I actually went and looked for my heater's anode and couldn't find it. There are 3 caps on the top and, after removing them and digging down 6 inches of foam, nothing. Even went off to the sides of the hole to make sure it wasn't a crooked hole deal.....
Reading online , opinions and solutions vary.

Removing the top cover to find it..Not going to happen because of all the work with the plumbing...
The anode rod is actually incorporated under the hot water line.... again, a bit of work..
That's kinda what I think is the case. Guess I'll reach out to the company.... Mine is a State....

There is a pressure valve section I'm guessing on the front that is plugged with a hex socket that you need an allen key for. There's an option to have the pressure relief on the top of the heater or side and mine has it on the top. Maybe that could be a spot for an electric anode like yours? Idk...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Do you have the owner's manual...? Mine suggests removing and inspecting my sacrificial anode after 6 months. Yesterday while talking with my plumber he mentioned encountering another heater that he couldn't get the anode out of.

It seems possible to build an active anode inside a heater (but I have never seen one). Likewise they could probably install 10+ years worth of sacrificial anodes. I suspect the anode deterioration depends on the water (PH?).

JR

 

[scott2000]

Do you have the owner's manual...?

I downloaded it but it's not appearing to match my scenario. Which isn't unusual from what I've read online. Even stories of talking to tech support who couldn't answer . Seems it's pretty common to have the anode under the hot water pipe or is part of it if I'm understanding correctly... My manual shows that as an additional rod option with the main anode being off to the side like normal but I can't find it.... Dug pretty good for it....

I suspect the anode deterioration depends on the water (PH?).

Yeah I've read people finding broken pieces at the bottom and the hot water heater still lasting over 20 years.... who knows...

I have a good feeling I can use that extra pressure relief port to install one but will see if I can get a definitive answer...
My heater is past it's expiration date so, maybe should leave well enough alone. I've only drained it once...replaced lower thermostat and a heating element years ago..... Still works great.... Big user of energy when it's called on that's for sure.....
So is my clothes dryer.....
replaced the element a year or 2 ago and it almost seems worse....the element looks identical....can't imagine it's different....

 

[JohnRoberts]

I downloaded it but it's not appearing to match my scenario. Which isn't unusual from what I've read online. Even stories of talking to tech support who couldn't answer . Seems it's pretty common to have the anode under the hot water pipe or is part of it if I'm understanding correctly... My manual shows that as an additional rod option with the main anode being off to the side like normal but I can't find it.... Dug pretty good for it....

Thinking about this makes me angry. Adding a couple empty tapped holes to support installing future sacrificial anodes would probably cost $1 or less. I suspect that there may be some electrochemical process going on between the anode and heater tank joint. Or the manufacturers take extra pleasure from over tightening them at first.

Yeah I've read people finding broken pieces at the bottom and the hot water heater still lasting over 20 years.... who knows...

My former hot water heater (that tried to electrocute me ) had a pretty much fully depleted anode. So much so that it rusted through the metal box keeping electricity away from the water.

I have a good feeling I can use that extra pressure relief port to install one but will see if I can get a definitive answer...

I think they use the same thread (3/4 NPT). I had to replace the pressure relief valve in mine a few years ago when it started dripping.

My heater is past it's expiration date so, maybe should leave well enough alone. I've only drained it once...replaced lower thermostat and a heating element years ago..... Still works great.... Big user of energy when it's called on that's for sure.....

I had my plumber put a decent quality faucet in the bottom drain of mine when he was installing it. They usually come from the factory with the cheapest bottom drain valve they can find. I drained mine just a couple weeks ago and the water was unexpectedly clear for my 8 YO heater..

So is my clothes dryer.....
replaced the element a year or 2 ago and it almost seems worse....the element looks identical....can't imagine it's different....

My old cloths dryer just keeps on trucking... I considered replacing it when I replaced my washing machine several years ago after it started making ominous grinding noises. For now (knock on wood) the dryer is still working and drying my clothes (hope this mention doesn't jinx it).
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My plumber often has good plumbing stories. He had a good one about a faulty heat trap that once caused him grief. He gets lots of routine service calls about clogged/dirty heat traps, but one trap really ran amok. The house he was working on had a recent bathroom add on. In that bathroom plumbing there was 3/4"-1/2"-3/4" T fitting. The check valve ball from the heater heat trap got loose and travelled all the way through the hot water pipe to get stuck in that T fitting where it was wedged into the 1/2" output blocking water flow. FWIW the external heat trap I ordered for my modification uses a flap valve instead of a ball check valve. Some old school plumbers just plumb a loop into the pipe coming out of the heater to effectively prevent the convective flows. You can buy pre bent loops or make one with the flexible outlet hose.

JR

 

[Matador]

I just picked up this set, as I was missing a handful of 1/4" drive sockets. It appears to be really well made, and the ratchet spins smoothly. At least visually, it's higher quality than the older Craftsman set that it replaced:

https://www.tekton.com/1-4-inch-drive-6-point-socket-and-ratchet-set-skt05303

50 6-point sockets for $90 seems like a good deal given the quality.