"Kleintuchel" to XLR

[RuudNL]

Something simple as a cable...

I am the owner of a couple of Sennheiser MD412N microphones, with a 'kleintuchel' connector.
Years ago I made tuchel to XLR cables, and checked that the polarity ("Phase") was correct.
Now I discovered that what I did was not conform the standard:
It should be like this:

Pin 1 XLR(M) -> Pin 2 tuchel(F)
Pin 2 XLR(M) -> Pin 1 tuchel(F)
Pin 3 XLR(M) -> Pin 3 tuchel(F)

But...when I connect the cable like this, the 421's are out of phase with all other European (XLR) microphones I have.
I checked this with a guaranteed never opened or modified MD421N.
Did Sennheiser use their own standard, or what could be the reason for this strange situation?
Of course this is not a real problem, but I would prefer my cables to be according to an international standard, not 'something that works here'...

 

[zebra50]

Hi Ruud

Your are quite correct. Sennheiser, Beyer and AKG were NOT consistent with DIN output polarity.

I am most familiar with the Beyer microphones, and many of the older ones are 'reverse' phase.

It gets more complicated because many microphones have been modified over the years.

Unfortunately the only thing to do is to test the microphones one at a time, and either correct the mic, or assign it a correct cable.

Cheers!
Stewart

 

[RuudNL]

Thanks! That confirms what I already found.
You would expect that a trusted company like Sennheiser would follow the standards!

 

[emrr]

....must check a couple cables....

 

[cyrano]

AFAIK, there was no standard before 1960? and mics were cabled at the wish of the (broadcast) buyer. Which means you never knew what was coming if you bought one in a shop. It's the same with MD21's and other Sennheisers that were manufactured in large quantities.

 

[Khron]

Would it maybe be an option to take the 421 apart and reassign the output wires so that the pinout conforms to the standard?

 

[analogguru]

..... Sennheiser MD412N microphones, with a 'kleintuchel' connector.
.....

There doesn't exist a "Kleintuchel"-connector.  The connectors in doubt were/are called (correctly) DIN-connector.

DIN like "Deutsche Industrie Norm" (english: "German Industry Norm").

just saying....

 

[RuudNL]

Yes, I know. I often refer to them as 'a DIN connector with a screw ring',  but in general they are called 'kleintuchel' in contrast to the real Tuchel connector.
Even Sennheiser speaks about a 'Tuchel' connector in their documentation. (See attachment)

Would it maybe be an option to take the 421 apart and reassign the output wires so that the pinout conforms to the standard?

Yes, that would be an option. But.... I had some other microphones with the same connector made by less well known brands, that I converted to the Sennheiser standard, because I assumed that Sennheiser 'was right' and all the others were wrong.  :
But as long as all my microphones use the same connection, I don't have a problem with it. There won't be confusion (they are all 'wrong' now!) and I have only one type of cables with DIN connectors.  ;D (Saves a lot of work too!)

 

[ln76d]

"Tuchel" is just taken from a company name, like with calling XLR a "Cannon".

Rudolph - that's odd, all "N" 421 which i had in my hands (and there was a lot) had correct phase/polarity at the output.

 

[RuudNL]

Strange indeed. As I mentioned before, the newest MD421N I have here is from the mid 80's.
That one was never opened, but still had the 'wrong' polarity. Well, never mind...
Now we know that they are all 'wrong', I made them 'right' again by reversing the wires! 

 

[analogguru]

Yes, I know. I often refer to them as 'a DIN connector with a screw ring',  but in general they are called 'kleintuchel' in contrast to the real Tuchel connector.
Even Sennheiser speaks about a 'Tuchel' connector in their documentation. (See attachment)

The quotation only says that Sennheiser were using DIN-Connectors made my Tuchel (now-Amphenol-Tuchel) with the part number T3260.

The correct description is still "Circular DIN-Connector" - even for those made by (Amphenol-)Tuchel (see attachment).

Sorry that I have a personal problem with the unnecessary "invention" of nonsensical terms like "Kleintuchel" or "brickwall-limiter".  As the term "limiter" implicates, a limiter (or peak-limiter) should ensure - especially in broadcasting - that the signal doesn't exceed a pre-defined level (under all circumstances) ("limit the signal level")- otherwise it is (only) a compressor.  So no need to redefine a real limiter as a "brickwall-limiter" - just use the correct terms for the tons of compressors.

Anyway, attached is the wiring of the MD416 for the "3pin-plug according to DIN 41524".  Did you verify that pin 1 is really pin 1 and pin 3 is really pin 3 on your DIN-connector?

 

[analogguru]

Only 1 attachment allowed - here is the wiring of the MD416:

 

[analogguru]

Did Sennheiser use their own standard, or what could be the reason for this strange situation?

Did you verify that pin 1 is pin 1 and pin 3 is pin 3 on your DIN-connector?  Here is the backside view of a female DIN-connector with numbering:

 

[RuudNL]

Short answer: yes.

 

[Timjag]

This is standard fair, my early XLR 421s are pin 3 hot, this was such a common occurrence when I was starting out 25 years ago that "phase checking" mics-I.e. Flipping the phase button and listening - was considered standard set up practice at the beginning of a session, that would get you shouted at if it was correct. I think we've all got so used to conformity we forget just what a wild country it was back in the day!

Music was better too ;-)