LAST MAGNETIC TAPE FACTORY CLOSES!!! YIKES!!!

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[quote author="bradzatitagain"]But maybe I'm making all of this up to just f&#k with you all.[/quote]

Like the price of gasoline? :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:

Peace!
Charlie
 
Lower tech jobs have moved away from Japan, first to Malaysia and Korea and now they are migrating to China. It will take a lot longer to have a wide effect in China, obviously, but they are already moving production facilities to the north in order to take advantage of workers with lower wage demands.

Well, that's great for the Chinese, but I wish our gov't and corporations would put the needs of our citizens first. (Yeah, I know, the notion of a corporation feeling any resonsibility to the people upon whose backs its business was built must seem naive in the year 2005). Does China give a shit about what's good for any other country's economy besides China's? Of course not. It's time for us to start looking after our own economy, infrastructure and middle class before it's too late. Exporting jobs and industries to other parts of the world is a kind of "charity" that we can live without. It flies in the face of the classic "mutual benefit" concept of free trade.

Don't even get me started on Wal-Mart... :mad:

Anyway, from the article about the Quantegy plant closing:
After returning to his home in Opelika, Alabama, Orr set up a magnetic tape manufacturing facility and soon afterwards began marketing his own tape under the "IRISH" brand name. Orr continued his manufacturing operation and in 1959, Orradio Industries became part of the Ampex Corporation.

Well, looky what I found in the back of the March 1952 issue of Audio Engineering
90kB JPEG
 
If the warehouse stock of Quantegy tape, not yet delivered to retailers, is counted as a corporate asset, the bank or the lawyers for the new owners, would likely freeze distribution of the tape, since it would be sold by the bank, or the new owner, to pay off the insolvency that caused the shut down in the first place.

Imation bought EMTEC's data tape stuff. What's left in the facyory will be dismantles and packed up and sent to Wisconsin (??? I don't recall where Imation's at) but they don't have any intention of running it, at least where it is in Germany. Law enforcement requires tape because tape isn't prone to crashes or computer freezes or the rest of the digital maladies, and LE tapes are used in court. Scott Dorsey commented that NASA doesn't have much tape gear left, they went digital pretty quickly and completely.

http://www.mmislueck.com/Archives/071003.htm
scroll through it, the Imation thing's in there.

All I was trying to say, and continue to say, id buy some tape now of you need it. If you're in the middle of a 2" album, buy some tape so you don't get stuck paying jacked prices from sharks selling it a month from now when Quantegy won't release any. That's all I'm talking about.

I'm sure fewer and fewer people will be having cats over turning 350's into mic pre's too.

Go ahead and try to buy some tape at MF zZounds, Music123, tell me what you come up with.

Word is the warehouses are under lock and key, w/ ARMED GUARDS. That's a creditor's kinda thing....
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]I wish our gov't and corporations would put the needs of our citizens first.[/quote]The problem is that "we" failed to say no to imported products with our wallets. "Made in USA" or fill in the blank with your country's name used tomean something to a lot of people. Of course, this can be construed as a form of racism.

Does China give a s#@t about what's good for any other country's economy besides China's? Of course not.
Actually, they should give great attention to the world economy outside of China. Do you think that they are selling more products in China or the rest of the world? If the world economy collapses, we will ALL suffer to some extent. This will be a result of our "smaller" world with interdependant economies.

Here's another one for you: Do you think that money (or greed therof) can stop war? Betcha we see that happen in the next several years. Maybe we won't know it though!

Sorry we have hijacked yer thread, Brad. I've been to Opelika before, but I never knew that Quantegy was there! I just got an old 1/4 inch 2-trk up and running for an effects machine. Better snag some tape!

Peace!
Charlie
 
Well, I am going to try and be cool as possible when I walk into GC and ask for all their tape.
"The whole box sir? Wat's up?!" Oh, nothing, got a big project coming up.
"But this is 15,987 dollars worth of tape?" Just put it on this stolen credit card.
Got anymore in the back?
:razz:

This whole China Syndrome is what caused the Civil War. My ancestor's lived right on the dividing line in St. Jo, Misery. Their neighbor's were outpricing them becuase the had cheaper labor. So my great, great had to move to Oregon to avoid using slaves. Kind of a domino effect, only I don't think we are going to stop this one. Scary stuff. Maybe 2005 won't suck as bad as the last few years. Let's hope so.
 
[quote author="SonsOfThunder"]Does China give a s#@t about what's good for any other country's economy besides China's? Sorry we have hijacked yer thread, Brad. I've been to Opelika before, but I never knew that Quantegy was there! I just got an old 1/4 inch 2-trk up and running for an effects machine. Better snag some tape!

Peace!
Charlie[/quote]

Hijack away! I like freedom of speech enuf to endorse and demand it wherever I go. I *think* I just scored a case of 12.5" reels of 406 for $5 a reel, (I'll see when it gets here,) 4 cases of 10.5" 031 (factory 2nd 456) way cheap, $2.50 a reel, and 2 cases of 632 plastic hub 10.5" at the price I usually pay. I'm not selling mixed down 2 track or 16/24 track 2" masters anymore, just data cd's or dvd's, and RedBook cd-r's on the usual el cheapo discs. Tape's going to be an in house "asset" until, and probably after, the mess gets sorted out. Some body has recently patented a method of dealing with sticky-shed tapes too, Howard Sanner's trying to get the guy to pipe up about it on the Ampex list. I've got 200 7" reels of 631 that's basically schtuck together. If it's a non-destrcutive method (as baking eventually becomes, you can't bake a single tape over and over again.) it might be a boon. Smart going, patenting something like that, fortunate timing.

Dave, by all means don't panic if you don't want to. You do film, right? Mostly indy film stuff on PT? Even if you do that for $$$ exclusively but have a luv for recording audio on tape and you think you've got enuf to last you for awhile check your supplier and see how much they have left tomorrow. The people that come by me to record their anatomically altered accordians are happy with what they hear on 631 so I'm not in much hot water, plus if I had to depend upon the project studio to pay the rent I'd be living in a damned camper docked in the park somewhere. I'm fortunate enuf to have the energy to create the time to do this stuff for fun.

It's put a cramp in my pleasure centers, damnit. I'd be as equally flipped out if the Astro Glide factory shut down. I mean, given the choice, would you buy Chinese toothpaste? Who the hell knows what's in Chinese toothpaste, for all you know everybody's dead grandmother in Shanghai province has had their knee caps ground into a "gentle abrasive" that they squeeze onto their toothbrushes twice a day, fer chrissakes. I'm not buying Chinese tape, even if it's on the market. Get your heads lapped by John French more than once a year and you have to sign a friggin' loan. BUY heads from John French and you have to sell a parcel of land. Tape recording is going to probably be an activity of the same guys that lease Porsche's and Benz's, and it pisses me off because it was this perfectly charming bricoleuer activity unti Xmas week last year. It sucks. And as you aptly say, $10K worth of blank tape isn't going to change much.

BUT if the bean counters at whatever bank or corpo that force'd Quantegy to close bother to take a look at any vendor's tape sales this week, maybe they'll hear it as a clarion call. I'd bet a paycheck that this is what happened: Q was in deep debt and had a severley crippled cash flow, and a big buyer stiffed them last month for enough $$$ that they wouldn't have been able to make payroll in January w/out having to significantly increase their debt service; their bank said NO WAY and slammed it shut.

Don't be naive about a factory re-tooling. Nobody's going to invest the billions (millions is a cottage industry thing these days, it would cost a ton of dough, in anycase) that would be needed to retool an open reel audio tape slitting facility. It won't happen. Some investment group's going to have to be smart enough to get ahold of that Quantegy tooling and not let it get scrapped like the Emtec/BASF slitting machinery was.
 
The issue is the tooling for slitting open reel audio tape. The best tape slitting machinery on the planet, Emtec's, was scrapped after nobody bought it at the auction.

Hey Brad,

Do you know what the special requirements for slitting tape are? What advantage did the Emtec equipment have? There are definitely some high end slitters running 24-7 out there with pretty tight tolerances, so there might still be hope. I was visiting an operation last month slitting webs of RFID tags being sent out to a BIG semiconductor manufacturer for chip mounting. The pick and place machines that bond the silicon to the conductive ink on polyester require some pretty accurate cuts for good registration. It might be possible to have magnetic tape slit at a third-party printer/converter with excellent results, assuming that someone picks up the tape manufacture again.

Maybe we will be discussing if Winged C or JJ tape is better next year.

Regards,
Chris
 
[quote author="CJ"]Well, I am going to try and be cool as possible when I walk into GC and ask for all their tape.
"The whole box sir? Wat's up?!" Oh, nothing, got a big project coming up.
"But this is 15,987 dollars worth of tape?" Just put it on this stolen credit card.
Got anymore in the back?
:razz:
[/quote]

You are darned funny, CJ. I just did the same thing last week w/their $39 Oktava 219's. "But these are 11 really crappy mics!" "So give them to me for free if I buy a saxophone or something then." Oooooooh no, can't do that, but we can, since we learn't it in our salemanship class, berate and belittle you until you feel as though you need to buy all the Blues we have.

I wonder if those sales guys with the polo shirts and haircuts (a recent development since they closed the Mission Street store and moved to Van Ness) know just what dorks and losers they really are. The guy that was helping me test mics (cutomers aint allowed to touch unpurchased mics NO MORE YOU MIGHT GIVE 'EM COOTIES! couldn't even get the BehrStinkger board to make sound, & I don't think he was faking it. Almost none of the original Mission Street sales guys kept their jobs, for whatever reason. GC Gestapo got'em, I betchya.
 
[quote author="Emperor-TK"]
The issue is the tooling for slitting open reel audio tape. The best tape slitting machinery on the planet, Emtec's, was scrapped after nobody bought it at the auction.

Hey Brad,

Do you know what the special requirements for slitting tape are? What advantage did the Emtec equipment have? There are definitely some high end slitters running 24-7 out there with pretty tight tolerances, so there might still be hope. I was visiting an operation last month slitting webs of RFID tags being sent out to a BIG semiconductor manufacturer for chip mounting. The pick and place machines that bond the silicon to the conductive ink on polyester require some pretty accurate cuts for good registration. It might be possible to have magnetic tape slit at a third-party printer/converter with excellent results, assuming that someone picks up the tape manufacture again.

Maybe we will be discussing if Winged C or JJ tape is better next year.

Regards,
Chris[/quote]

The tape has to pack *reasonably* flat without a forced tape guidance system on the transport. 350 series and 440 series have tapeguides that force the tape to pass the heads in basically the same vertical space. If the tape "country lanes" over the heads, as it will in fast forward or rewind, your azimuth is blown. You'll never be able to set your azimuth and leave it alone. If a particular reel of tape sucks way bad a single azimuth setting won't even get you from the beginning of the tape to the end of the tape.

Every tape usually packs flat on play. Cassettes have forced tape path guidance built into the shell. Some way expensive Nakamichi cassette decks override the mechanical tape guidance in the shell, they don't even use the felt pad to press the tape against the heads. Video tape transports pull big loops out of the shell to wrap the drum, so video tape isn't even in this conversation.

Studers don't have forced tape guidance systems on the most recent decks, from around the end of the 70's I think. Any machine that doesn't have a capstan pinch roller, I *believe*, doesn't have forced tape guidance. They rely completely upon the quality of the factory slitting.

The guy that would have the super-skinny on this is Jay McKnight at MRL Tape Labs; he makes alignment tapes. I don't know if anybody else in the US makes alignment tapes, I think he's the only one. He also designed the Ampex MR-70. He's a pretty sharp guy; I believe 111% percent of everything that comes out of that guy's face. He's been bitching about Ampex/Quantegy "country-laning" for quite some time, something like 40 years now.
 
[quote author="bradzatitagain"]

The tape has to pack *reasonably* flat without a forced tape guidance system on the transport.[/quote]

Very nice explanation. I think I understand. If the slit edge has any burrs, the burrs would not want to overlap unless forced to. Without any guides, the tape might skate up and down because of the burrs. I didn't think about that. My only hands-on experience with tape was when I ran a Teac 80-8 when first getting my project studio up and running. That one had tape guides, and it didn't occur to me that 16 or 24 track decks didn't necessarily.

Thanks,
Chris
 
[quote author="bradzatitagain"]Dave, by all means don't panic if you don't want to. You do film, right? Mostly indy film stuff on PT? [/quote]

Used to do more location recording for feature films but have been focusing elsewhere lately. Either way, Im nearly %100 tape based, 1/4" for the nagra in the field and my studio is 2" and 1/4". Im pretty well fucked if this happens but there is simply not enough information available to get bent yet, companies that want to stay in business do not file for chapter 11 protection. I worked with nonlinear recording platforms in the mid 90's, I dont enjoy it and will gladly find another career if this spells the end of commercial linear recording. We are a long way from a definitive answer on that though. Life is too short to spend it frustrated with your tools.

dave
 
[quote author="Emperor-TK"][quote author="bradzatitagain"]

The tape has to pack *reasonably* flat without a forced tape guidance system on the transport.[/quote]

Very nice explanation. I think I understand. If the slit edge has any burrs, the burrs would not want to overlap unless forced to. Without any guides, the tape might skate up and down because of the burrs. I didn't think about that. My only hands-on experience with tape was when I ran a Teac 80-8 when first getting my project studio up and running. That one had tape guides, and it didn't occur to me that 16 or 24 track decks didn't necessarily.

Thanks,
Chris[/quote]

It also has to do with how far the sheet of film wanders from side to side in the slitter. I think it's more about that than the sharpness of the blades; from what I've heard the blades are sharpened as the machine operates. It's more about the slit being straight. BASF had it down, as you'd expect from a German high precision manufacturer. An excess of precision is a matter of national pride in both Germany and Switzerland (we know! we know!), so Studer and BASF really got it on. Ampex didn't consider all that mechanical over-engineering a precident or a priority, they had their arguments for forced guidance and stuck with it. All the MM's have forced guidance, I'm pretty sure.

The tape guides on the 350 are horizontal glass rods, like 1/16". They are mounted on the cut away on both ends of the head stack cover so the tape is guided as it enter the head stack and as it exits. 440's use ruby instead of glass. There are also metal guides at the reel idler and the loop tensioner arm just after the capstan. I'm sure that design was considered Flintstonish at Studer.

Spitz does all kinds of tape path mods to a stock ATR before he sells it with his badge on it. I think he sells retrofit kits too. Lots of rotating guides instead of the stock fixed guides. Check out his gear at ATR Services website, it's edumacational.
 
Here's your big chance for retail activism, just got this 1/4/05 12:32 AM PST:

From: HAWKESASC@
Subject: Quantegy open for biz tomorrow at 7:30 CST
To: brad_something_self @earthlink.net

Hello there Brad-

Quantegy will be open for biz tomorrow at 7:30 CST. Order some tape.

Bryant Hawkes, P.E.
Hawkes & Associates, Inc Consulting Engineers
16415 Addison Road Suite # 160
Addison, Texas 75001

972-241- vox
972-241- fax
 
[quote author="Kev"]:sad: :roll:

it's all bad

outsourcing and tax and globalisation ...

the dead line for voluntary redundancy is in a couple of weeks and after that we will see if they go to IN-voluntary redundancies ... retrenchments

I know I'm in the firing line

[/quote]

Wow, that sucks, Kev.

It cracked me up the other day when I logged into MSN: The poll question on MSN Today was "Do you think Australia will continue to prosper in 2005?"

And I thought "It prospered in 2004?" Maybe for Rupert and Kerry.
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]

Well, that's great for the Chinese, but I wish our gov't and corporations would put the needs of our citizens first. (Yeah, I know, the notion of a corporation feeling any resonsibility to the people upon whose backs its business was built must seem naive in the year 2005). Does China give a shit about what's good for any other country's economy besides China's? Of course not. It's time for us to start looking after our own economy, infrastructure and middle class before it's too late. Exporting jobs and industries to other parts of the world is a kind of "charity" that we can live without. It flies in the face of the classic "mutual benefit" concept of free trade.

Don't even get me started on Wal-Mart... :mad:

[/quote]



I'm not sure how we?re going to survive as this service economy that we're turning into; Wal-Mart doesn?t pay and the middle class is going down fast. The real problem is our Government selling us out to corporate special interest. Off shore tax shelters is one example of the corruptness another is a trend for turning back federal regulations on big business in the guise of a phony philosophical defense for pure capitalism and open markets when the truth is a copious amount of secret back door meetings between corporations and politicians that is the driving force behind their actions. For example the overturning of the regulations to prevent giant media companies from owning as many of each kind of TV. Stations newspaper publications and radio stations. It was passed secretively at night when no was paying attention. So now 3 media companies own all of the radio stations throughout the country, I no longer have any trust in the media and may never again hear a good song on the radio. It's corporation?s powerful ability to subvert our elected officials for their own special interest that is our greatest threat. And if you speak out you're a fanatic or unpatriotic. They've got the masses hood winked and placated with gun rights and anti- abortion slogans while they rip them off blind. I guess it?s not that hard to lead the cattle to the slaughterhouse.
 
Had some more thought today about CJ's proposal that the pursuit of "cheeper labor" (in the form of slave labor :oops: ) was the thing that propagated civil war in the US. CJ, you are dead on there, except i think there were some cultural influences there as well that made it actually happen. Many of these cultural influences are now gone... (too many of them remain as well...).

We all vote with our pocketbooks, but sometimes we don't know or realize it during the process. Perhaps we should have all started with a boycott of Walmart from the outset??

The real problem is our Government selling us out to corporate special interest.
I think I could site several other problems as well :thumb:

You make a good point, Rich. Many times I think we are too concerned with trying to legislate morality whilst we unknowingly get cut off at the knees on some issue that has a much greater long-term effect on us all.

Really it's just the Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules!

Peace!
Charlie
 
[quote author="rich"] I guess it?s not that hard to lead the cattle to the slaughterhouse.[/quote]

Rich, if you hit the reload button after you get the PM debug error you can then read the PM.

rgrds,
Brad
 
Other stories in the news today said the plant lay-offs affected 170 or so families. The Production Manager was in line at the unemployment office along with everybody else, he had worked there for 19 years.

Q maintains they will reopen but will only be selling audio tape "that sells" no 600 series, probably no 406. If you've got an old deck that won't bias hot enough for 456 or GP9 then you might want to try to find some stock somewhere for sale. Kurt, the sales guy at USRecordingMedia.com suggested just calling the factory directly and ordering stuff that most vendors don't stock.

Payroll and benifits for 160 people in a factory that's not union isn't enough to sink the only open reel audio tape manufacturer left in the world. If the brass is making so much that they can't generate $8mil to pay an average of $50K including benefits, then there's something fishy.
 

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