little by little, some prototype

[maurizionatoli]

Good evening to all DIYers!
The road of experimentation does not stop so I have the pleasure of presenting 2 new prototypes: the first is a "variation on the theme" of the THE sphere (which you can see in the photo). Instead of 2 capsules I mounted 4, 2 on the sides with a small "ear-like mask" that helps discriminate the sounds coming from behind, one on the front to better focus on the sounds coming from the front and one behind for the ambient. With a simple matrix, mixing volumes and phases, interesting results can be obtained. The other is a variation on the "binaural head" theme, based on the assumption that, especially in live recordings, both audiences and musicians become distracted and annoyed by a realistic head. The results are encouraging, I will gradually submit the test results and it will be a pleasure to hear your comments.
Best regards and happy DIY!!!
PS: in the meantime I also attach an audio file created with my "pure capsule" microphones

 

[maurizionatoli]

PPS: I named my quad capsule sphere "Alfred"

 

[maurizionatoli]

I think the link to audio doesn't works, maybe it's better the we transfer link https://we.tl/t-Y814vlJ5wO

 

[rock soderstrom]

PS: in the meantime I also attach an audio file created with my "pure capsule" microphones

doesn't work, try this:

Because of a bug in the forum you need to insert an MP3 into the post in order for it to work

 

[maurizionatoli]

Is It ok with the wetransfer link?

 

[rock soderstrom]

Is It ok with the wetransfer link?

Yes, it works! Beautiful

 

[maurizionatoli]

Many thanks, sirs!

 

[ruffrecords]

You need shoulders. Back in the early 70s my prof at uni was working on audio location for the blind. They used artificial heads in their experiment to try to determine how the ear/brain combination worked out where a sound comes from. Front/back and left/right were fine but they were unable to hear height information with their artificial head. Then one day they tried adding a pair of shoulders and bingo! up and down could also be determined - presumably because of the time difference in reflections from the shoulders.

Cheers

Ian

 

[maurizionatoli]

Dear Ian, First of all, thank you for the valuable advice! From what I have been able to study, there are different approaches to binaural recording, for example Neumann does without the torso, although they have made an absolute top-notch product (the KU100). Other companies, especially those engaged in measurement and medical research, find its use indispensable but, as I have already written, the presence of a human-like head can be a bit too "Addams Family," let alone half a mannequin... Mainly for this reason I decided to leave out the human-like heads and resort to a more neutral form. I attach to this message a recording of a helicopter I was lucky enough to record while I was working, I leave it up to you and those who want to listen to judge whether the perception of height is present. After all, I need the binaural head to record music, and it is in this area that I will concentrate my efforts. Again thank you and I look forward to your evaluation of this record.
RGDS
PPS: for the avoidance of doubt, I would like to emphasize again that the piano recording (live) was made with the microphones I made using the "M 50 style" capsules suggested by KingKorg. For this I thank him again.
BEST

 

[gyraf]

..we can't open .mp3-files here, I think?

 

[maurizionatoli]

sorry, I still haven't figured out how to upload the MP3 so I am sending the wetransfer link
https://we.tl/t-s9JSLO6wkP

 

[maurizionatoli]

and this is another prototype, same capsules and electronics, different ears
https://we.tl/t-PE5NXNaLrs

 

[MidnightArrakis]

During the mid-to-late 1970's when I was a SENNHEISER products dealer, I purchased a SENNHEISER MKE-2002 "Triaxial Stereo Microphone" system which was based upon the -- dummy-head -- concept. In addition and similar to the comment made by RuffRecords that "you need shoulders", the MKE-2002 came with its own large and tall circular box to where you could place the dummy-head onto when recording and it simulated a person's torso. Here's an image ("torso" box seen at the very bottom):



I used this MKE-2002 system once to record a church service because I had wanted to record the grand sound of a large choir and pipe organ within the natural reverb ambience of a large church. Since I thought that the sight of this dummy-head might be a bit too spooky for the congregation to see, I placed the head onto its torso-box in the pews where I had thought it best to be and I then placed a long-haired blonde wig onto the head itself. To a small certain degree, my microphone setup just kinda looked like a small old-lady sitting there in the pews. (NOTE: my head was essentially "light-beige" in color, meaning it blended-in with the Caucasian demographic of the church).

All was going well during the church service that I was recording, with me down a side hallway sitting in front of my CROWN SX-722 tape recorder with a pair of SENNHEISER headphones on, until the end of the service. Unbeknownst to me, members of the choir who were located up on a balcony behind the pulpit, could see that "there was this old lady sitting in the pews who wasn't moving. She must of suffered a heart-attack and died"!!! So, they contacted the deacons of the church, who came out and were walking up and down the aisles trying to find this old-lady and offer her some assistance. As it turned out, from a side-view of the pews looking across them with all of the congregation blocking the deacons' view from the aisles, they couldn't find the old-lady!!! And, they were becoming quite concerned!!!

When the service finally ended and the congregation cleared out, the deacons rushed to the old-lady with the blonde hair to offer their assistance.....only to find out it was a dummy-head with a wig!!! MAN!!! Were they ever pissed!!! Not only that, but the minister was "quietly enraged" at me for causing all of the commotion during his sermon, until.....I placed my headphones onto him and played back my recording of the service. The minister was totally blown-away at how life-like and huge the recorded sound was.....even on a pair of headphones!!! So, he calmed-down and then told me that the next time I decide to do this.....let him know first, OK???

Now.....as to this "dummy-head system's" ability to record and playback -- directional information -- accurately, I have this other (shorter) story:

Once again, I took my SENNHEISER MKE-2002 microphone system and my CROWN SX-722 tape recorder into a nightclub that featured jazz bands. In the nightclub where I had myself setup, the stage was along a wide wall, then the dancefloor was in front of the stage and then (for whatever reason, I don't know) there was a raised seating area directly across from the stage that was about 4-feet high. So, there I am sitting at a table in the front of the raised seating area maybe 15-feet away and directly across from the stage. From that perspective, the entrance to the club was to my left and at an approximate 45-degree angle. The bar and cash-register were to my right and at about a 30-degree angle. Since the raised seating area was quite large itself, there were plenty of patron tables located behind me. In addition, there were chairs placed on the dancefloor and along the small wall that was created by the raised seating area for the dancers to rest themselves upon.

Listening to the playback of this jazz-band tape on a set of headphones is unbelievable and nearly "unrealistic" of what you are hearing!!! The jazz-band not only sounds amazing and terrific with its recorded fidelity, but "mentally" the band is -- right there in front of you -- with its "directional sonic ambience" also having been recorded. Not only that, but.....the front-door of this nightclub had a rather obvious squeak whenever anybody went through the door whenever it opened and closed. And.....YEP!!!.....as you are listening to the jazz-band and somebody goes through the front-door, the squeak that you hear is -- not -- just in your left-ear, but.....the squeak is "to your left at a 45-degree angle"!!! Similarly, you can also hear the cash-register "over to your right at a 30-degree angle"!!! In addition, and perhaps to what RuffRecords was inferring to, you can also hear the laughter of some of the patrons who were sitting in the dancefloor chairs.....not only in front of where I was located, but also -- from down below in front of me -- of where I was located!!! A TOTALLY AMAZING LISTENING EXPERIENCE!!! And, finally.....YES!!!.....you can also hear people shouting and laughing (a typical nightclub scenario) at the tables located behind me sound exactly like they are behind you!!! To sum this all up.....YEP!!!..... this is a completely realistic -- YOU ARE THERE -- listening experience on a pair of headphones!!! NO KIDDING!!!

One time while playing this tape back for a group of my friends, I had decided to try something out that was "one step further" than just wearing a pair of headphones. I took the output signal from my CROWN tape deck and split it into two feeds, one feed going to the power-amplifier that was feeding six of the SENNHEISER headphones and the other feed going to a CROWN VFX electronic crossover. I took the "Low-End" output of the VFX and fed that to a BOSE 1800 power-amplifier that was connected to a pair of JBL 4320's. So.....why did I do this??? Because the JBL's have a 15" woofer, that's why.

After all of my friends and I put our headphones on and I started the playback of the tape, while I was wearing the headphones, I turned-up the JBL's and adjusted the VFX-crossover until everything sounded pretty good and was well-balanced sonically. So, now.....what all of us were hearing was the jazz-band not only in its "natural sonic ambience" of being in a nightclub, but we could also (somewhat) realistically hear and -- FEEL -- the overall low-end of the music..... JUST AS THOUGH YOU WERE RIGHT THERE IN THE NIGHTCLUB.....ESPECIALLY THE KICK-DRUM that a pair of headphones just cannot reproduce!!!

I still have that tape around here somewhere.

/

 

[soliloqueen]

Dear Ian, First of all, thank you for the valuable advice! From what I have been able to study, there are different approaches to binaural recording, for example Neumann does without the torso, although they have made an absolute top-notch product (the KU100). Other companies, especially those engaged in measurement and medical research, find its use indispensable but, as I have already written, the presence of a human-like head can be a bit too "Addams Family," let alone half a mannequin... Mainly for this reason I decided to leave out the human-like heads and resort to a more neutral form. I attach to this message a recording of a helicopter I was lucky enough to record while I was working, I leave it up to you and those who want to listen to judge whether the perception of height is present. After all, I need the binaural head to record music, and it is in this area that I will concentrate my efforts. Again thank you and I look forward to your evaluation of this record.
RGDS
PPS: for the avoidance of doubt, I would like to emphasize again that the piano recording (live) was made with the microphones I made using the "M 50 style" capsules suggested by KingKorg. For this I thank him again.
BEST

you need to hit the insert button on an mp3 attachment or the forum breaks

View attachment 01. Serenity.mp3

 

[k brown]

I would point out that anything using realistic pinnae is going to require very complex EQ to undo the coloration they create, when listening with either loudspeakers or circumaural headphones. This is because in those situations, the sound gets acted upon by pinnae twice: once during recording, then again during playback, by the listener's pinnae.

Without such EQ, the freq response will only be correct if playback is via in-ear phones that are positioned in the listener's ear canals in roughly the same place as the micrphones were in the artificial ear, thus not getting filtered a second time by the listener's pinnae.

In my own extensive experiments, I found the use artificial pinnae to be more trouble than it's worth. What provides a good distinction between front and back (without the problems associated with pinnae), is in some way providing a shorter path around the back of the 'head' than around the front; this is the case with a human head.

Though it looks nothing like a head, some of the most realistic "binaural" recordings I've ever heard/made were with a Crown SASS (or my several DIY versions). Terrific front/back distinction (though a little too much), without the aforementioned challenges of artificial pinnae.

My own improvements on the SASS included substituting triangular boundaries (based on the Neumann GFM132) made of 1/4" hardboard (instead of the SASS's thin plastic) and angling the boundaries further out, to 'open up' the front, and not block sounds from the rear so much. These were made the 'BLM' way, not the 'PZM' way.

 

[MicMan]

.. I attach to this message a recording of a helicopter I was lucky enough to record while I was working, I leave it up to you and those who want to listen to judge whether the perception of height is present ..

The helicopter sounds great - plenty of throbbing bass - but I don't think there's any height information. I think that because we're used to helicopters flying up in the air, we may subconsciously ascribe height info to the sound, but all that I think I actually hear is a transition sideways from right to left.

(I'm listening with over-ear 'Titum' cans, which usually give honest, full frequency audio.)

Incidentally, the piano music - as inserted above by Soliloqueen - sounds transposed left-for-right to me: the top notes are on the left, and the lower notes are on the right, whereas they're the other way around on any piano keyboard. Maybe it was a mistake in mixing, recording, or mic placement. But it sounds "unreal" and unbelievable ..like listening to a mirror image, if that's possible!

 

[MidnightArrakis]

The helicopter sounds great - plenty of throbbing bass - but I don't think there's any height information. I think that because we're used to helicopters flying up in the air, we may subconsciously ascribe height info to the sound, but all that I think I actually hear is a transition sideways from right to left.

(I'm listening with over-ear 'Titum' cans, which usually give honest, full frequency audio.)

Incidentally, the piano music - as inserted above by Soliloqueen - sounds transposed left-for-right to me: the top notes are on the left, and the lower notes are on the right, whereas they're the other way around on any piano keyboard. Maybe it was a mistake in mixing, recording, or mic placement. But it sounds "unreal" and unbelievable ..like listening to a mirror image, if that's possible

Switch your headphones around on your head and everything will be just fine!!!.....

/

 

[MicMan]

Switch your headphones around on your head and everything will be just fine!!!.....

"Doctor, doctor, I get this pain in my arm when I lift my hand above my head." "Then DON'T !"

 

[MidnightArrakis]

"Doctor, doctor, I get this pain in my arm when I lift my hand above my head." "Then DON'T !"

"Doctor, Doctor.....I get a pain in my eye each morning when I drink my coffee after stirring-in some sugar!!! What should I do"???

"Try removing the spoon from your coffee cup after you stir-in the sugar!!! That will be 50-bucks"!!!

/

 

[maurizionatoli]

During the mid-to-late 1970's when I was a SENNHEISER products dealer, I purchased a SENNHEISER MKE-2002 "Triaxial Stereo Microphone" system which was based upon the -- dummy-head -- concept. In addition and similar to the comment made by RuffRecords that "you need shoulders", the MKE-2002 came with its own large and tall circular box to where you could place the dummy-head onto when recording and it simulated a person's torso. Here's an image ("torso" box seen at the very bottom):

View attachment 127695

I used this MKE-2002 system once to record a church service because I had wanted to record the grand sound of a large choir and pipe organ within the natural reverb ambience of a large church. Since I thought that the sight of this dummy-head might be a bit too spooky for the congregation to see, I placed the head onto its torso-box in the pews where I had thought it best to be and I then placed a long-haired blonde wig onto the head itself. To a small certain degree, my microphone setup just kinda looked like a small old-lady sitting there in the pews. (NOTE: my head was essentially "light-beige" in color, meaning it blended-in with the Caucasian demographic of the church).

All was going well during the church service that I was recording, with me down a side hallway sitting in front of my CROWN SX-722 tape recorder with a pair of SENNHEISER headphones on, until the end of the service. Unbeknownst to me, members of the choir who were located up on a balcony behind the pulpit, could see that "there was this old lady sitting in the pews who wasn't moving. She must of suffered a heart-attack and died"!!! So, they contacted the deacons of the church, who came out and were walking up and down the aisles trying to find this old-lady and offer her some assistance. As it turned out, from a side-view of the pews looking across them with all of the congregation blocking the deacons' view from the aisles, they couldn't find the old-lady!!! And, they were becoming quite concerned!!!

When the service finally ended and the congregation cleared out, the deacons rushed to the old-lady with the blonde hair to offer their assistance.....only to find out it was a dummy-head with a wig!!! MAN!!! Were they ever pissed!!! Not only that, but the minister was "quietly enraged" at me for causing all of the commotion during his sermon, until.....I placed my headphones onto him and played back my recording of the service. The minister was totally blown-away at how life-like and huge the recorded sound was.....even on a pair of headphones!!! So, he calmed-down and then told me that the next time I decide to do this.....let him know first, OK???

Now.....as to this "dummy-head system's" ability to record and playback -- directional information -- accurately, I have this other (shorter) story:

Once again, I took my SENNHEISER MKE-2002 microphone system and my CROWN SX-722 tape recorder into a nightclub that featured jazz bands. In the nightclub where I had myself setup, the stage was along a wide wall, then the dancefloor was in front of the stage and then (for whatever reason, I don't know) there was a raised seating area directly across from the stage that was about 4-feet high. So, there I am sitting at a table in the front of the raised seating area maybe 15-feet away and directly across from the stage. From that perspective, the entrance to the club was to my left and at an approximate 45-degree angle. The bar and cash-register were to my right and at about a 30-degree angle. Since the raised seating area was quite large itself, there were plenty of patron tables located behind me. In addition, there were chairs placed on the dancefloor and along the small wall that was created by the raised seating area for the dancers to rest themselves upon.

Listening to the playback of this jazz-band tape on a set of headphones is unbelievable and nearly "unrealistic" of what you are hearing!!! The jazz-band not only sounds amazing and terrific with its recorded fidelity, but "mentally" the band is -- right there in front of you -- with its "directional sonic ambience" also having been recorded. Not only that, but.....the front-door of this nightclub had a rather obvious squeak whenever anybody went through the door whenever it opened and closed. And.....YEP!!!.....as you are listening to the jazz-band and somebody goes through the front-door, the squeak that you hear is -- not -- just in your left-ear, but.....the squeak is "to your left at a 45-degree angle"!!! Similarly, you can also hear the cash-register "over to your right at a 30-degree angle"!!! In addition, and perhaps to what RuffRecords was inferring to, you can also hear the laughter of some of the patrons who were sitting in the dancefloor chairs.....not only in front of where I was located, but also -- from down below in front of me -- of where I was located!!! A TOTALLY AMAZING LISTENING EXPERIENCE!!! And, finally.....YES!!!.....you can also hear people shouting and laughing (a typical nightclub scenario) at the tables located behind me sound exactly like they are behind you!!! To sum this all up.....YEP!!!..... this is a completely realistic -- YOU ARE THERE -- listening experience on a pair of headphones!!! NO KIDDING!!!

One time while playing this tape back for a group of my friends, I had decided to try something out that was "one step further" than just wearing a pair of headphones. I took the output signal from my CROWN tape deck and split it into two feeds, one feed going to the power-amplifier that was feeding six of the SENNHEISER headphones and the other feed going to a CROWN VFX electronic crossover. I took the "Low-End" output of the VFX and fed that to a BOSE 1800 power-amplifier that was connected to a pair of JBL 4320's. So.....why did I do this??? Because the JBL's have a 15" woofer, that's why.

After all of my friends and I put our headphones on and I started the playback of the tape, while I was wearing the headphones, I turned-up the JBL's and adjusted the VFX-crossover until everything sounded pretty good and was well-balanced sonically. So, now.....what all of us were hearing was the jazz-band not only in its "natural sonic ambience" of being in a nightclub, but we could also (somewhat) realistically hear and -- FEEL -- the overall low-end of the music..... JUST AS THOUGH YOU WERE RIGHT THERE IN THE NIGHTCLUB.....ESPECIALLY THE KICK-DRUM that a pair of headphones just cannot reproduce!!!

I still have that tape around here somewhere.

/

Wow I’very curios to listen to them! And many thanks for the nice anecdote!