looking for "Recessed Toggle Switch - know any sources?

[Brian Roth]

Nagra switches....I KNEW I had seen that switch design somewhere!

Bri

 

[totoxraymond]

Could a resin one work? Could be easier to diy then.

 

[Tubetec]

For something like a DI box which often ends up on the ground recessed toggles make plenty of sense.
Mini toggles also come in a variety of shaft lenghts , that night explain how the Nagra looks different to the Helios . I hear what was said about the Stones mobile , Keith and the boys were often stumbling around the place off their heads in studio ,maybe someone decided it would be a good idea to make the DI boxes kick proof .

In military gear you often see toggles with U shaped guards , which might be another slightly less pretty way to do it .
https://geremy.co.uk/Military-style-switch-guardsThat has a 6mm hole and a slot that suits mini toggles and keeps the switch aligned the right way ,

 

[Whoops]

I’ve asked the old Cats with Helios knowledge and none of them has info on that DI box or the bezels.

Just got the info that Helios used C&K switches.

I checked the time periods, and the Nagra IV-S is from 1971, and these DI boxes should be from somewhere between 69 and 72. So both units are from the same time period.
Maybe not easy to find stock of a 53 years old Bezel assembly

Time to ask Nagra and C&K

 

[Tubetec]

Heres the short lever version of the C&K mini toggle ,

https://www.canford.co.uk/C&K-MINIATURE-TOGGLE-SWITCHES
Heres a link to a dress nut with the same thread as a mini toggle , still wont give you the flush mount look of the Nagra , but certainly provides protection from knocks and bumps .

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/switches/toggle-switches-slide-switches/toggle-switch-caps-boots/

 

[MicMaven]

Hmmm ... While some correctly observe these recessed panel caps may minimize breakage and damage - as an ersatz guitarist, I follow Mr. Whoops who mentioned they may minimize accidentally altering one's effects during a performance.

On the other hand, they make it substantially more difficult to intentionally switch settings in a hurry - which suggests they are intended to work more like some DIP switches - allowing one to change settings, but not necessarily quickly or often, which may be a more likely reason than avoiding damage on tour. Just thinking aloud ... James

 

[Whoops]

Personally they don't seem to be "substantially" more difficult to switch, the concave shape makes it easier to go there with the tip of your finger and nail and switch them.
As I've said I'm quite interested in them for Live sound, like you said I don't want the setting to be changed during the performance but I also don't want the switches to break when I carry the boxes around inside my gear Trolley case, which normally switches do, they all break at some point, even slider switches that are a bit more flush than toggle switches.

For my initial uses it would just be a Ground lift switch and PAD switch on DI boxes, so those are not switches that you need to change all the time. You change them in soundcheck if you need and then it's done.

I'm pretty sure if these Bezels were available at the present that the DIY crowd would jump on them, both the Pro Audio DIY people but also the Guitar stompboxes DIY crowd.

 

[3.14fingers]

I have a suggestion I have used in the past - Purchase a Neutrik panel mount phono socket like this one NF2D-0 - Unbolt the rca phono socket and replace it with the toggle switch of a suitable size and style. I've also used these to allow panel mount jack sockets for headphone plugs in the studio near ground level so people do not kick or break the jack plug while it is in the now recessed housing. There's also a pdf at that link showing the physical size. Thanks to Neutrik™ for always having drawings and for the photo.

 

[Whoops]

Thank you guys for trying to help by giving a different solution with a different type of assembly, but I’m really not interested in any alternative or workaround.
I’m just interested im the Bezel assembly I showed.

This thread is only about finding a source and having more information on these Bezels used by Helios and Nagra and not on other items

Thanks

 

[zamproject]

Time to ask Nagra ?

No ref find in service manual of the IV-SJ associated to this exact part, except Nikkai E-20xx/S, which is probably just the toggle switch (NKK ?)

 

[Whoops]

Thank you mate, I will ask them and also C&K.

What happens with old parts or vintage parts that were produced is that old stock still exists forgotten in a warehouse, basement or attic somewhere, the problem is to find that place, even the people that might have old stock of it might not know everything they have in storage.

I just found a store in my city that has hundreds of boxes of germanium AC128 military version transistors, the original store was from their grandfather, they didn’t even know that they have boxes full of stuff that the guitar pedals crowd are looking for at the present. For them it’s just some boxes on the back of the warehouse that are taking up space. They also have an huge stock of high quality orange film Phillips (now Vishay) capacitors, which they don’t even care about. They have no website or stock inventory of the old stuff. They just want to sell Chinese electronic gizmos

You can be sure this Bezels exist somewhere, and probably in big quantities, it’s just that we might never find them

 

[Disco Volante]

Given measurements I could make a batch of these.
Y'all just need to decide on a switch to fit. Or maybe there needs to be 3 different models?
I might even take few myself, these are supercool fittings;-)

Cheers, V

 

[Whoops]

Have more info to add to this.

These type of Bezels/Switch supports were used in all the models for the IV line of Nagra recorders.
So all these models used those:
Nagra 4.2
Nagra IV-D
Nagra IV-L
Nagra IV-LE
Nagra IV-S
Nagra IV-SJ
Nagra IVS-TC

After going through 5 different service manuals for the IV line I was able to find the part number in one of the 4.2 service manuals







So it was part number 01.04.510.0.24, and it's described as a Support for Nihon-Kaiheiki switch.
there's a typo in the service manual for the name Kaihiki, it's with an "a" and not an "e"

In the IV service manual, it has a part numbers for the switches,
the brand is Nikkai with models E-2020/S, M-2020/S, E-2025/S, E-2012/S.

Nikkai is a shortname for Nihon-Kaiheiki, a Japanese switch brand nowadays called NKK (Nihon Kaiheiki Kogyo).

If that Support/Bezel was made by Nihon-Kaiheiki I don't know, there's not enough info for that, by I will contact NKK.

 

[Whoops]

I don't seem to find this part in the Nagra IV-S service manual, maybe I'm not seeing it right.
Please let me know if any of you is able to find that part here:

View attachment Service-Manual-IV-STC P66.jpg

View attachment Service-Manual-IV-STC P65.jpg

 

[Whoops]

I'm contacting a lot of different sources at the moment regarding this part.

There's one person I would like to contact,
his name is Steve George, and he was the main Service/Repair person for Nagra recorders in the US.
He worked in Trew Audio around 2005/2006, years later he seems to have worked for dCS North America.
He is probably the most knowledgeable person in terms of Nagra recorders parts in the US, but unfortunately his old contacts don't work any longer and I'm not able to contact him.
Tried to find him on Facebook but got nowhere, I don't have a Linkedin account.

If any of you guys have a Linkedin account an can try to find him using the info above, that would be great. Or if you are better than me in Facebook and can find him there

Thanks

 

[Whoops]

Given measurements I could make a batch of these.
Y'all just need to decide on a switch to fit. Or maybe there needs to be 3 different models?
I might even take few myself, these are supercool fittings;-)

Cheers, V

Nice offer mate,
Do you have the machines for the metal work?

I don't have measurements as I never had that part in front of me, just saw it photos, and I also don't have access to a Nagra 4.
The only option would be to try to scale the part dimensions through the only know dimension in the photo that we could know for sure, and that's the switch lever tip. Possible, but not that easy.
Otherwise we would have to be somewhat creative and maybe decide our own dimensions for the part.

Let me see if I can get hold of any of these parts, even if i was able to buy just 1 then we could have the correct measurements. Let's see how this quest goes.

Thank you

 

[zamproject]

Y'all just need to decide on a switch to fit. Or maybe there needs to be 3 different models?

Inside it's probably 1/4-40 UNS (6.35) which is a standard for all mini toggle switches

 

[Whoops]

I've sent quite a few emails today to different contacts, trying to find more info and possible a source for this,
let's see what happens.

I contacted also Nagra and NKK switches.

Although NKK is hard to contact has they don't share email address like a lot of big companies, you need to use a form in their website for contact.
I've contacted NKK US, NKK EU and also NKK Japan. I guess NKK Japan would be the best to contact, it's more direct, although it has to be in Japanese language, I used a translator for that, hopefully it didn't make any weird words or sentences.

I should have more news in the next days, let you guys know.

for now, if anyone is able to find "Steve George" , ex service/repair for Nagra in Trew Audio and dCS North America companies, on Linkedin that would be awesome

Thanks

 

[Disco Volante]

I guess it would be possible to reverse-engineer the measurements. I'm guessing the mounting hole in the fascia is 12.7 (1/2inch) and the switch is very likely 6.35mm (1/4inch) as pointed out by Zamproject. That would make the largest diameter 14mm? Depth would be defined by the length of the toggle lever, they come in a few sizes, and width/length of the cutout by the dimensions of same lever (1/8inch? 3mm?)
They look like they're anodized, which opens up a world of funky colouring options. How about a red and a black one to supplement the grey?

I do have extensive machining capabilities (and strong industrial connections).

Just thought I'd chime in, since somebody asked for a lathe. Mine is currently winding output transformers, one of the many tricks it does...

Cheers, V!

 

[Whoops]

I guess it would be possible to reverse-engineer the measurements. I'm guessing the mounting hole in the fascia is 12.7 (1/2inch) and the switch is very likely 6.35mm (1/4inch) as pointed out by Zamproject. That would make the largest diameter 14mm? Depth would be defined by the length of the toggle lever, they come in a few sizes, and width/length of the cutout by the dimensions of same lever (1/8inch? 3mm?)

It seems to me that your trail of though is correct, it makes sense that math for the measurments

They look like they're anodized, which opens up a world of funky colouring options. How about a red and a black one to supplement the grey?

Personally I'm only interested in the original color, I guess it's the "Grey", but if this becomes a product then other people might have different needs and tastes.
For me, I don't have a need for black or red.
Simple Grey, Simple Life

I do have extensive machining capabilities (and strong industrial connections).

Just thought I'd chime in, since somebody asked for a lathe. Mine is currently winding output transformers, one of the many tricks it does...

That's great and thank you so much for chiming in and for your offer.
Let me see if I can get at least an original one, then measurements would be much easier and not an approximate guess.
NKK and Nagra still didn't reply to me, and those could be the best options to source the part.
But I also contacted many other people involved with Nagra and switches industry