Mic Parts S-87 upgrade (capsule or?)

[Ricardus]

If you know what is in the first picture then you might have a clue as to how capsules are made!

Looks like Peluso Microphone Labs has responded.

 

[Ricardus]

I am being disingenuous at best? And you are praising a guy who makes a 2700$ 47 style mic with wrong type of capsule? And he works with capsules? K67 in u47 type of mic? Peluso has no idea what he is doing.

I asked him about the capsule in his 2247 that you addressed in this comment, and John's reply was:

"The capsule is designed to sound like an M7, but with accurate polar patterns..."

He also provided this link to a review of the mic itself:

https://www.barryrudolph.com/mix/peluso2247se.html

 

[kingkorg]

There is no point to discuss this with you as it's not you claiming this, but i will try explain why this is not possible. And maybe someone else who makes capsules can jump in.

The first reason k47 (m7) and k67 could never sound alike is because of the physical construction and dimensions. Simply because of two separate bacplates in k67 that have kind of maze arrangement the holes don't align and there is no direct connection between front and rear diaphragm. It is cardioid capsule.

K47 has direct through holes that connect cavities behind the diaphragms, making effectively a super cardioid or even hypercardioid depending on the holes size.

Even if you could make k67 match frequency response of k47, which would be almost impossible, you would still end up with totally different sounding capsules because of off-axis response and proximity effect.

There is absolutely no reason to claim k47 doesn't have "accurate polar patterns". I bet what he was saying is that it's difficult to match both sides of k47 because of single backplate of k47, so using k67 would be a easy way out. Basically cheating.

Another issue is backplate thickness. K67 is thicker, and laws of physics don't allow it to perform as k67. Why?

There are two pieces that can help you understand all of this if you are really interested.

1.Eargle's The Microphone Book

2. Amazing Shure article i attached.

There used to be an article by Shure on single diaphragm, but i can't find it right now. This should suffice.

I would like you to understand i'm not attacking anyone out of the blue, i really am certain about these things, and the best i could do is give Peluso some slack if maybe somehow he doesn't get these things himself.

And i'm not even going into the fact Peluso's capsule in that mic performs exactly as other stock oem china capsules i have of that type.

 

[soliloqueen]

There is absolutely no reason to claim k47 doesn't have "accurate polar patterns"

I'm not saying you're wrong about the rest of your post (in fact, I agree with you), but on this point the k47, because of the design peculiarities you mentioned, is nominally supercardioid over its frequency band when only one diaphragm is polarized. A small voltage on the reverse diaphragm is required to get a cardioid pattern, and thus the polar patterns are actually rotated a few degrees, which is not true of the k67/k87. On continuously variable k47 mics like the m49, engineers would mark the "true cardioid" point on the dial with tape. It wouldn't be strictly wrong to call this rotation of the polar patterns "inaccuracy."

Whether that's relevant to Peluso's argument, I don't have the experience with his mics to say, but the statement is, out of context, factually true.

 

[kingkorg]

I'm not saying you're wrong about the rest of your post (in fact, I agree with you), but on this point the k47, because of the design peculiarities you mentioned, is nominally supercardioid over its frequency band when only one diaphragm is polarized. A small voltage on the reverse diaphragm is required to get a cardioid pattern, and thus the polar patterns are actually rotated a few degrees, which is not true of the k67/k87. On continuously variable k47 mics like the m49, engineers would mark the "true cardioid" point on the dial with tape. There absolutely is a reason to claim this: because it's true.

Agree 100%. My point is they are very different and you can't use them interchangeably. But you could come up with ways to bring them closer, and even then whey would be too different. Why not just use right capsule? And it's not that k47 doesn't have "accurate" but just different polar pattern. I have an issue with phrasing there, and somehow it strikes me as him being somewhat disingenuous. But that could be language barrier.

Edit:
Needles to say omni and f8 would end up sounding different using two differently constructed capsules. As you are joining two hyper vs cardioid signals.

 

[kingkorg]

So i dug up measurements i have of that mic. The circuit measures terribly wrong. U47 should have flat circuit response up to 40k. Here is the measurement of Peluso's circuit. And the measurement of the whole mic. It looks nothing like u47, more like u67 or u87 typical response with k67 capsule and filtering to smooth out top end of the capsule. Say good bye to any high end detail with this mic. However it's not even a u67/u87 type due to wring headbasket shape. You may disregard low end boost as i used omni mic as reference for the measurement.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding… Is anyone (including John Peluso) claiming the Peluso 2247 is a clone of the Neumann U47?

Even if anyone was, would anyone be fooled? And even if they are, is it not their own fault for not doing the most basic research, at home, on your couch, in your underwear, watching the game, with a beer in one hand and your phone in the other?

I don’t care if it’s a $10 microphone or a $2500 microphone, in today’s world, if you’re that lazy, I don’t know what to say! And it’s been that way for a long time now.

I don’t care that it has the numbers 47 in its model number. I don’t care how much anyone is trying to tell me it’s 47-sounding. I don’t care if the circuit or parts have the same design-lineage as whatever they’re claiming. I am aware, because I care. If I don’t, then I just have to deal with whatever comes my way, after the fact, even if it means that I realize, I’ve been screwed. Either way, I don’t need a vigilante to save me! Whatever happen to self-accountability and life-lessons? Some of us never learn. We’re all guilty of it in some fashion, but it’s on us!

 

[xeawr]

I see lots of people throwing accusations around about John Peluso, and it seems pretty unfair when all you have to do it ask him. He answers the phone when you dial his business. I know this because I called there once with a question when I built 2 of Dany's D87s and used Peluso capsules. I had a problem with one and had a question about the capsule, so I called. He offered to fix the mic for free for me if I sent it down to him. I ended up solving the problem so that was not necessary.

He makes himself available to me for any and all questions I ever have in FB Messenger.

I don't want to sound snarky, just honestly saying "good for you". My experiences with Peluso were completely contrary to yours...