Mic Parts S-87 upgrade (capsule or?)

[andivax]

3rd party, and psu is Tbone psu found on Thomman for 60€.

That's the real businessman than ))))

What frequency response capsule needs if I want to place it in S-87 (Scheps scematics)?

 

[kingkorg]

What ever you want, it's a mater of taste and application. K67 are found in flat circuits like c800g, or in tuned circuits like u67, u87. You wouldn't want to reduce high end on a k47 which is darker already. I have four different bodies with four different circuits just for Tim's TC12 capsule for example. Detachable head system.

What i am talking about is dishonesty and magic dust bs. I believe s87 is what it is, and sounds nice as provided from MP. Next step would be to make something else.

 

[Ricardus]

My understanding is that this is what Peluso does as well, and that comes from some inside knowledge. I believe (but haven’t had confirmed personally) that AA and Peluso share many of the same backplates/toolings. Its only the skinning done differently.

I do know for a fact that Peluso capsules are skinned/tuned/processed in the US. Regardless of what other argument one may make, calling that whole process a “rebranded chinese capsule” is disingenuous at best.

I see lots of people throwing accusations around about John Peluso, and it seems pretty unfair when all you have to do it ask him. He answers the phone when you dial his business. I know this because I called there once with a question when I built 2 of Dany's D87s and used Peluso capsules. I had a problem with one and had a question about the capsule, so I called. He offered to fix the mic for free for me if I sent it down to him. I ended up solving the problem so that was not necessary.

He makes himself available to me for any and all questions I ever have in FB Messenger.

 

[andivax]

What ever you want, it's a mater of taste and application. K67 are found in flat circuits like c800g, or in tuned circuits like u67, u87. You wouldn't want to reduce high end on a k47 which is darker already. I have four different bodies with four different circuits just for Tim's TC12 capsule for example. Detachable head system.

What i am talking about is dishonesty and magic dust bs. I believe s87 is what it is, and sounds nice as provided from MP. Next step would be to make something else.

Agreed! I will leave S-87 as is.
K-67 in Sony is their own capsule AFAIK. Plus 3 tubes, etc. And I don't want c800g sound ATM.
I have seen a "251 clone" topic here on GroupDIY. Looks like it's time to read it. But I am afraid it will be over the top for me since I am just beginner.
I have solder my S-87 about 7 hours.
That's a shame I know ))))

 

[kingkorg]

I see lots of people throwing accusations around about John Peluso, and it seems pretty unfair when all you have to do it ask him. He answers the phone when you dial his business. I know this because I called there once with a question when I built 2 of Dany's D87s and used Peluso capsules. I had a problem with one and had a question about the capsule, so I called. He offered to fix the mic for free for me if I sent it down to him. I ended up solving the problem so that was not necessary.

He makes himself available to me for any and all questions I ever have in FB Messenger.

Why? Well this is how it goes. This poor guy, owner of well established studio here in Norway, bought couple of Peluso mics at distributor center in Oslo in good faith after hearing all the good stuff about Peluso. He paid an arm and a leg for two of his mics.

Within a year both died. The other one being this ribbon with yet again STOCK CHINESE MOTOR FOUND IN REGULAR 50$ CHINESE MIC WITH STOCK RIBBON AND STOCK CHINESE TRANSFORMER. Which is obvious, that ribbon looks like it weighs a ton. The ribbon was never subjected to excessive spl or blow. It was used as permanently placed mono drum room.

After contacting the distributor they couldn't fix the mics because of the lack of the spare parts and expertise. They offered sending them back to Peluso which the owner rejected as it would take ages for mics to get back to Norway.

We are not into chit chat, we need this tools to work, and as the product support is non existent locally we don't really need to waste our time on junk like this.

So thanks to Peluso's marvelous business model this is like twentieth Peluso mic i am trying to revive and make something useful of. Now that i think about it, it could be we in Europe get the crap. Maybe you guys in the US get something else. I really don't know. But Peluso has nothing to explain i am not aware of.

 

[amplexus]

I am being disingenuous at best? And you are praising a guy who makes a 2700$ 47 style mic with wrong type of capsule? And he works with capsules? K67 in u47 type of mic? Peluso has no idea what he is doing.

I obviously can't argue with your experience wrt failures. I've both used more than a few his capsules and had him rebuild several vintage ones in repairs and I've never had a single failure nor complaint about the sound from a client over probably 5+ years. I'm not doubting your experiences, simply that my experience is the polar opposite of yours. I will agree that the PSU's on the tube mics are 100% generic, but they get the job done. However they aren't sold as a separate unit even to distributors afaik so there's no way to tell how that factors into the cost/value breakdown.

But in terms of the capsule sourcing and design claims you make it would literally mean that John has boldfaced lied to me (not to mention to multiple publications in several interviews, including Tape-Op), in detail, on multiple occasions. I won't rule that out as a possibility but it strikes me as unlikely without having some significant, strong evidence. (I cannot speak to the ribbon motors, as I've never had one in my hands)

The man has been in the mic business for 40+ years, with a formal education in audio electronics- highly respected mic techs like Eddie Ciletti have praised his work (and use his mics). He's also always been upfront about not building direct clones. One can argue for or against liking the sound or approach, but far far better qualified people than I certainly praise him and seem to believe he knows what he's doing.

 

[kingkorg]

Fair enough

 

[Ricardus]

The man has been in the mic business for 40+ years, with a formal education in audio electronics- highly respected mic techs like Eddie Ciletti have praised his work (and use his mics). He's also always been upfront about not building direct clones. One can argue for or against liking the sound or approach, but far far better qualified people than I certainly praise him and seem to believe he knows what he's doing.

Eddie is a friend of mine and we talk a lot about Peluso's products, and he knows a lot about the component sourcing.

 

[amplexus]

Eddie is a friend of mine and we talk a lot about Peluso's products, and he knows a lot about the component sourcing.

Same! Tho in my case i would definitely consider him a professional acquaintance- friend would be a stretch. But we’re Facebook friends and have had a bunch of mic and gear related conversations. I would trust anything he knows about Peluso (and mics in general) over my own knowledge any day.

 

[Recording Engineer]

kingkong has a history of making extremely strong and serious accusations against various people, including the deceased, without strong evidence; more of just a hunch. I’ve addressed it to him before and it didn’t change a thing.

 

[kingkorg]

kingkong has a history of making extremely strong and serious accusations against various people, including the deceased, without strong evidence; more of just a hunch. I’ve addressed it to him before and it didn’t change a thing.

100% percent true.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Doesn’t change a thing about how knowledgeable, helpful, and well-regarded he is here!

 

[soliloqueen]

kingkong has a history of making extremely strong and serious accusations against various people, including the deceased, without strong evidence; more of just a hunch. I’ve addressed it to him before and it didn’t change a thing.

I have noticed this. I feel like since there's a lot of marketing smoke in the microphone industry he enjoys just kind of poking at people to see if they can defend themselves but I have seen him go overboard a couple times as you point out. Still a good dude though.

Peluso capsules do appear to be skinned to me. The texture of the gold sputtering is different than the raw AA capsule as it ships from the factory. If he says he's assembling and skinning them in the US I believe him personally because the speckled texture of the gold is consistent with the equipment he says he's using.

I don't think KingKorg is arguing that, I think he thinks that skinning matters less than other people here do. From what I can tell he thinks the back plate is of the utmost importance and if done correctly skinning is a pretty small contributor to the sound of a capsule. From this perspective, the entire concept of skinning existing backplates is itself a marketing gimmick. If you don't think skinning matters, then it makes sense that you would claim that using another company's backplates is just rebranding with extra steps.

I suppose I both agree and disagree with him. I do think skinning does less than a lot of people seem to think, there is definitely some mystical element of conversations about it going on sometimes, but I don't think it contributes so little as to just say that the capsules are rebranded.

Capsule assembly from OEM or market parts is always going to be a somewhat complicated topic with a lot of varying opinions, many of which held quite firmly.

 

[sadmonkeysound]

The problem is that comparisons between T-12 and V-251 just not exists. Matt claims he sold 15000 kits and somehow no quality demos of both mics on YouTube. Zero comparisons between T-12 and V-251. In the YouTube comments I have seen info that T-12 just doesn't sound as sweet on highs as V-251.

I have a V-251 that I built, along with their upgraded power supply. It’s an absolutely lovely mic. I’ve also got a couple T-12s. They are, of course, different mics, but the most immediately obvious differences in tone are the ones you’d expect when comparing a tube mic to a non-tube mic. They are both great mics. Think about them as a vintage 414 with a transformer vs a 251, not as two takes on the 251.

Here’s the deal - if you’re looking for something that sounds exactly like a particular vintage 251, the only mic that will satisfy you is that vintage 251. I’ve never heard a clone or reproduction that I think sounds exactly like the memory in my head of the 251s I’ve had the pleasure of using. If you want a fantastic sounding mic that you can absolutely use everywhere you’d use a 251 and for the same reasons, the V-251 is great, and I’m very happy with it.

 

[mrgrooves666]

I have one of the older "Linear 87" Mic Parts kit, build around a CAD GXL3000 mic. It was my first anything mic related diy attempt. The kit included one of their K47 capsules. I don't mean to bash or anything, this stuff is pretty sibjective,, and I don't know if they've changed their product since then, anyway the modified circuit is top notch, increased sensitivity, very low noise, all in all a very poppy sounding km84 kind of circuit adapted for LD, but, I was never fond of the sound of that K47 capsule. It was just still to bright for my tastes, words to describe, harsh bright, thin, edgy. Later on as you, I decided to try a capsule swap, I went with a Maiku K47 capsule based on our dear friend Piotr's suggestion, and the difference, to my humble ears was a certain improvement. A darker, mellow, and much smoother sounding capsule, with a "woody" like quality, more like I was expecting to hear. So I wouldn't venture to say they (3U, Maiku's, Mic Parts) are exactly the same or that you can''t expect an improvement. Unfortunately sometimes there's no shortcut than just take the plunge, try and judge for yourself. Now I can indeed confirm both 3U's dark k47, and Maiku's K47 are using the exact same backplate , and its different than the one in my mic parts capsule. Othen than that, the skin (sputter color or tone) does look different for what its worth, and rings, Maiku are metal, while 3U are plastic, on the ones I have at least. Both these two sound very close though. And both to my ears sound good. I have not tried mic parts' 87 though or Maiku's, but I do have a poctop 87 build with 3U K67, their normal or bright one, and it is one of my favorite mics. Its bright, but not in a harsh way , rather very smooth, and has pretty robust reach down too.

 

[kingkorg]

I have noticed this. I feel like since there's a lot of marketing smoke in the microphone industry he enjoys just kind of poking at people to see if they can defend themselves but I have seen him go overboard a couple times as you point out. Still a good dude though.

Peluso capsules do appear to be skinned to me. The texture of the gold sputtering is different than the raw AA capsule as it ships from the factory. If he says he's assembling and skinning them in the US I believe him personally because the speckled texture of the gold is consistent with the equipment he says he's using.

I don't think KingKorg is arguing that, I think he thinks that skinning matters less than other people here do. From what I can tell he thinks the back plate is of the utmost importance and if done correctly skinning is a pretty small contributor to the sound of a capsule. From this perspective, the entire concept of skinning existing backplates is itself a marketing gimmick. If you don't think skinning matters, then it makes sense that you would claim that using another company's backplates is just rebranding with extra steps.

I suppose I both agree and disagree with him. I do think skinning does less than a lot of people seem to think, there is definitely some mystical element of conversations about it going on sometimes, but I don't think it contributes so little as to just say that the capsules are rebranded.

Capsule assembly from OEM or market parts is always going to be a somewhat complicated topic with a lot of varying opinions, many of which held quite firmly.

Thank you for putting it together better than i ever could.

Edit:
As for the deceased people, i apologize but i do not keep track of that, i don't know how i could.

 

[soliloqueen]

i kinda get that. i'm new here and i'm still finding out people have passed unfortunately, so if you haven't been in this specific community a long time it CAN be hard to keep track

 

[JPO]

My understanding is that this is what Peluso does as well, and that comes from some inside knowledge. I believe (but haven’t had confirmed personally) that AA and Peluso share many of the same backplates/toolings. Its only the skinning done differently.

I do know for a fact that Peluso capsules are skinned/tuned/processed in the US. Regardless of what other argument one may make, calling that whole process a “rebranded chinese capsule” is disingenuous at best.

 

[JPO]

My understanding is that this is what Peluso does as well, and that comes from some inside knowledge. I believe (but haven’t had confirmed personally) that AA and Peluso share many of the same backplates/toolings. Its only the skinning done differently.

I do know for a fact that Peluso capsules are skinned/tuned/processed in the US. Regardless of what other argument one may make, calling that whole process a “rebranded chinese capsule” is disingenuous at best.

 

[JPO]

If you know what is in the first picture then you might have a clue as to how capsules are made!