Monitor section with 16 channel summing with 2 x stereo returns and talkback

[Spencerleehorton]

Hi guys,

Need to try and build a monitor section with 16 channel summing with 2 x stereo returns and talkback with 3 speaker outputs.
I have a selection of mic pre amps and outboard which I want to be able to monitor before and after the DAW.
At the moment I'm using a GS3000 32 channel desk and it has a pretty good master section so would like something along those lines but as high quality as possible, but I want to sell the GS3000 as it way too big for the space I have.

All ideas welcomed.

Regards

Spence.

 

[ruffrecords]

I find it helps to clarify my thoughts if I sit down and try to draw a block diagram of the ins and outs and how they all connect together.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Hi ruff records,

Yeah I have done that with my desired setup, any ideas on the above?

Regards

Spence.

 

[dmp]

What is your question?
On your design or how to build it?

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Sorry, I wasn't being clear.

I want to build a monitor section which will have 16 balanced inputs with trim for output via direct output for DAW, 2 stereo inputs for DAW and computer audio, could have gain controls and pans for the 16 inputs but not essential. Also 3 outputs for speakers and 2 outputs for headphones.
If it could also have the ability to be expanded on the headphone side at a later stage.
This way I will have my multicore snake in the live room patched into the patch bay 16 mic inputs.
16 mic pre's into patch bay.
All my compressors and gates in patch bay.
DAW and computer connected to monitor section.
Audio interface patched into patch bay and 1st output to stereo return in monitor section, 2nd output to go to DAT machine which is then connected into patch bay.
Then I can patch everything into the monitor section how ever I please in every session.
Just need to build something that is going to be high quality but not break the bank too much.

All ideas welcome, hope this explains what I want to do.

Regards

Spence.

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Here is a ruff drawing of what I want to accomplish.

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Anyone have ny ideas?

 

[ruffrecords]

Anyone have any ideas?

A block diagram showing the signal flow you envisage would still be good to see.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Ok, I will get drawing the signal flow as best I can!

Regards

Spence.

 

[Spencerleehorton]

To the best of my knowledge this is the setup that would like, i hope its not to difficult to do.

regards

Spence.

 

[ramshackles]

I'd break it down into what the signal flow actually *in* the unit you want is going to be (for instance, DAW, mic pre's are all external). Then decide the specifics of each part.

From what I can see, you want a unit with:

- 16 line level inputs with individual gain control and summing.
                      - Is the summing stereo, and in that case which inputs go left and which go right?
                      - Do they need to be balanced inputs, does the gain control need to add gain or is it a volume control?

- post fade direct out on each channel. I don't see why you would need an extra 'trim' control here?
                    - Again, balanced?

- 3 further stereo inputs
                    - How is this seperate from the 16 inputs above? summed differently? Unbalanced?

- Master fader & 3 stereo outputs, with speaker selection

- Another summing stage which sums the main mix with an external microphone input (so it needs a preamp aswell). This is fed directly to a headphone amplifier.

It's a tall order. I'd start by focusing on the 16 channels with gain control and how would do that. Then look at the other stuff
 

 

[Spencerleehorton]

Right well that's confused me now! Lol, I'm not exactly sure what I need on what you have out, definitely put the cat amongst the pigeons!
I know I need 16 line level inputs from the mic pre amps that's a given.
Balanced inputs is good.
Gain just adjusting volume is good, but I wanted the direct output to go to the DAW but have trimmers so I can adjust ther recording level going into the DAW.
This way I can either do a mix to headphones before the DAW or within the DAW.
But doing a mix within the DAW could have latency which I don't want really.
I would want each channel to be panned I think as that is the way I've always done it and can't get my head around another way.

Balanced direct outs yes.
The stereo inputs need to accommodate audio from the PC and DAW interface so if this is better balanced then yes, if not then no.
I don't think the stereo inputs should be summed differently but I'm open to suggestion here.

Master fader with speaker selection yes, or mutes.

Are you able to help get me started please?

 

[ruffrecords]

Are you able to help get me started please?

This conversation is exactly what is needed.  It is important to clarify things before we can make any sensible recommendations but I would day at this stage that Ramshackles new boards look like a strong contender.

I will make a stab at incorporating all you have said into a signal block diagram.

Cheers

ian

 

[ruffrecords]

Here's my first shot at a block diagram. Each input enters on an XLR, goes trhu' a patch point then back to the level control, into a buffer amp then to a mute switch, to the pan pot and thence to the left and right mix buses. The direct out has a trim control and output buffer amp. I am not clear where this connects to hence the ??. It could go pre the patch, pre the fader, post the buffer or post the mute - your choice.

The stereo returns (which I forgot to label 1 of 3) just have a level control, buffer amp and then go straight to the mix bus.

The mix bus amps feed the speaker level control and them a separate buffer amp and mute  button for each output. You might be able to simplify things a little by just having a pair of speaker buffer amps followed by the three mute buttons.

Lastly, the mix bus amps also feed the TB switch which selects either the TB amp of the bus mix, feeds the result to the headphones level controls and then to the headphones amp.

As it stands, and assuming we do the LS buffer simplification, you are looking at over 40 op amps to do the job.

Cheers

Ian