MS mics placement

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Can I ask what headphones you prefer? I’ve been loving some of the planar headphones, like the HEDDphone Two or Audeze, but they are open-back, so no isolation.

Thanks!
Adam

For location work and studio as well I like the Beyer DT770 Pro well sealed and good range 5Hz to 35KHz - 80Ω version to get plenty of level. 250Ω good for monitoring but need a lot of headphone amp level to get enough signal whereas the 80 Ω are good all rounders. The 250Ω have a different coil construction.

 

[Toobme]

MY ms setup is noisy compared with my AB and ORTF rigs.
Just need good quiet mic for the side portion - or it’s easily noticed.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

MY ms setup is noisy compared with my AB and ORTF rigs.
Just need good quiet mic for the side portion - or it’s easily noticed.

What mic are you using for fig8?

 

[Barry Hufker]

If you have the budget, I suggest the Sennheiser MKH 30-P48. I've had a lot of luck with it.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

I find that after mucking around with M/S at various times I got the best results when I had two identical mics with the patterns set for cardioid and fig 8 - this seems to work for getting a good stereo recording for a small interactive vocal group rather than other coincident formats, where a slight shift in vocalist position can drastically alter the relative level of a performer. Also dual Omni spread at about 65cm works well for the same arrangement - the only difference being the position of individual vocalists relative to the mics.
I’ve also used a Coles 4038 for the S and a 4033 with the dynamic element switched in for the M for a combined acoustic guitar vocalist recording.
The beauty of the whole system is being able to get the balance between front and sides easily in the mix (as long as the initial sound source placements are set up right).

 

[Toobme]

What mic are you using for fig8?

Actually my MS setup is a pair of Jolly-modded MK012s. Using the Okatava MS capsule mount is prolly not the best case of MS.
I’m sure if I had nicer setup like Schoeps or the like, it’d be amazing.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Actually my MS setup is a pair of Jolly-modded MK012s. Using the Okatava MS capsule mount is prolly not the best case of MS.
I’m sure if I had nicer setup like Schoeps or the like, it’d be amazing.

The MK012 doesn’t have fig 8 - how are you doing an M/S setup? Does this sum the capsule pair for the S mic?

 

[Philbo King]

I have been involved with quite a few large organ recital recordings and what has worked out well for me is just using a ROYER SF-12 stereo ribbon microphone placed on a 16-foot high mic-stand, along with two Audio-Technica cardioid condenser mics placed about 10-feet away on either side from the main pipes, but facing towards them. The SF-12's and the Audio-Technica's were all recorded onto their own tracks of a 24-track recorder.

If there were any choirs, other instruments and/or vocalists, then of course, they were also recorded onto each of their own tracks as well.

During the mixdown of these sessions, the ROYER SF-12 was "front and center" of the mix and the sound and then I would bring up the Audio-Technica's just a smidgen in order to add some solid low-end and a bit of "closeness" to the overall sound. Within some churches, the room ambiance and reverberation while sounding really "cool", could also somewhat overwhelm the listening sound.....so, mixing in the "closeness" sound of the Audio-Technica's just a bit gave the mix some added "body" to it. Sounds great on headphones!!!

I never had any problems with "phase" issues. My main problem with these organ recital recordings was keeping the audience members from knocking over my 16-foot high mic-stand with a $2,500.00 mic sitting on top of it!!! I ended up having to tape large signs onto the stand to tell people to > STAY AWAY < while also glopping a bunch of Duct-tape to the legs to try and secure the stand to the floor!!! It all worked well enough!!!

>> HAPPY ORGAN RECITAL RECORDING!!! <<

/

Gaffer tape - easier to haul around than sand bags.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Gaffer tape - easier to haul around than sand bags.

Good for lots of other things as well - stringing up Par Cans, repairing shoes, cable fixing to the floor or walls. Strongest I’ve seen has been the Gorilla tape

 

[Toobme]

They don’t make a fig-8, but they make the dual cap adaptor: MK-012 Small Diaphragm Figure 8 Adapter | Oktava USA

I’ve used it and it works, but it’s not a real fig-8 in that the caps’ distance from each other is a factor.
But it renders fine, except in mono.

I use it as a backup or second perspective - here’s the setup in a Rode blimp:
Didn’t wanna pull it apart but the inside . . .

 

[k brown]

Yup, back-to-back cards out of phase; most of Sony's stereo mics made that way.

Even the Neumann KM86 gets it's 8 pattern that-a-way.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Cool - didn’t realise Oktava did it as well. Shouldn’t be noisy though.

 

[Philbo King]

Good for lots of other things as well - stringing up Par Cans, repairing shoes, cable fixing to the floor or walls. Strongest I’ve seen has been the Gorilla tape

Yeah... don't know if I'd trust it to hold up a par can. Maybe an LED one.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Yeah... don't know if I'd trust it to hold up a par can. Maybe an LED one.

Yeah standard can straight to a lighting truss - a few turns and it’s super strong.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

They don’t make a fig-8, but they make the dual cap adaptor: MK-012 Small Diaphragm Figure 8 Adapter | Oktava USA

I’ve used it and it works, but it’s not a real fig-8 in that the caps’ distance from each other is a factor.
But it renders fine, except in mono.

I use it as a backup or second perspective - here’s the setup in a Rode blimp:View attachment 113819
Didn’t wanna pull it apart but the inside . . .
View attachment 113820

Looks like it’s canted off axis - or is that just the photo?

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

They don’t make a fig-8, but they make the dual cap adaptor: MK-012 Small Diaphragm Figure 8 Adapter | Oktava USA

I’ve used it and it works, but it’s not a real fig-8 in that the caps’ distance from each other is a factor.
But it renders fine, except in mono.

I use it as a backup or second perspective - here’s the setup in a Rode blimp:View attachment 113819
Didn’t wanna pull it apart but the inside . . .
View attachment 113820

Is this mic pair noisy on its own?
ie the S mic double capsule by itself and the M mic by itself - maybe a fault in the electronics of one.?

 

[k brown]

Good for lots of other things as well - stringing up Par Cans, repairing shoes, cable fixing to the floor or walls. Strongest I’ve seen has been the Gorilla tape

Just to be picky - Gorilla is not a form of Gaffer tape, but a thicker, stronger duct tape. True Gaffer tape has unique qualities, most importantly (the reason it was invented) is that the adhesive is formulated to be removeable without damage to most surfaces; something Gorilla cannot lay claim to.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Just to be picky - Gorilla is not a form of Gaffer tape, but a thicker, stronger duct tape. True Gaffer tape has unique qualities, most importantly (the reason it was invented) is that the adhesive is formulated to be removeable without damage to most surfaces; something Gorilla cannot lay claim to.

Gorilla that I use is cloth, same as Gaffer and I keep both in my travelling tool kit (the ) The Gorilla is a bit more permanent but works well for tying cable to lighting trusses - bare or powder coated metal with any heat makes the Gaffer leave a sticky residue that the Gorilla doesn’t do

 

[k brown]

You can save some money by using Frog tape for tying cables to trusses; that often doesn't rerquire something as strong/stiff as Gorilla. I also use Frog for taping cables to the floor. It's green color can also be advantage for visibility (don't step here), that grey or black tape doesn;t have.

My use (location Classical recording) isn't as robust as stage rigging, but I haven't bought a roll of Gaffer for years.

It's very curious that the Wikipedia page says it's not certain where the name came from. It's inventer, Ross Lowell was a lighting designer and cinematographer. Lighting techs for film have been called Gaffers for decades before the tape was invented; no one has ever doubted that it was made for use by Gaffers.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Some of the cabling I do is really heavy stuff and requires pretty strong tape - with the Gaffer undoing itself after lights running for several hours and also leaving a lot of sticky crud you have to clean off before the gear goes back to the hire company. I made the mistake of using Gaffer on a polished timber floor one time and it lifted the lacquer in some places - luckily other people had done the same before me so it wasn’t noticeable.
Frog is really good on wooden floor and carpet but these days here we’re not allowed to run cables over public area floors any more in case someone trips and sues the venue - only allowed on stage - there are restrictions that must be adhered to (not floors ).