multiple clipping stages (and or units)

[Marssound]

Hello DIY world,

I have a question about clipping:
When soft-clipping a sin wave (for example with diode clipping),
the peak will become a little flatter and you can call this a kind of compression but it will also generate a waveform with
extra harmonics. the sin wave isn't a pure sin wave any more.

but what will happen if I clip this new signal again? I think it will not generate the same waveform but instead will
flatten the already flatten peak curve more. and if you do this several times in a row, you will end with a
square wave.

I want to know if this is true and applicable to audio music signals.

see picture with a test I did to show it works that way. well, at least it worked in a software wave editor!

 

[gyraf]

compression would affect the whole curve, and preserve the waveform - clipping distorts the shape because it only act on part of the wave

adding clipping onto clipping and so on eventually approximates a square wave

 

[shabtek]

Square wave = all the odd harmonics of the fundamental

 

[JohnRoberts]

I learned back decades ago when I messed around with some unusual clipping circuits I had zero success predicting what they would sound like.

You need to melt some solder and listen to the results.

JR

 

[Marssound]

adding clipping onto clipping and so on eventually approximates a square wave

thanks. this was what I wanted to hear!

my software test (see picture) was already a reasonable proof that multiple clippings in a row produce a square wave.

my point is the use of multiple saturation devices in my studio. I have been using these in series configurations for a long time.

the next test will be with multiple 19 inch studio devices to see what remains of a sine wave when I put it through multiple clippings.

so my goal is not to make a square wave (indeed a perfect square wave is just odd harmonics) but just to investigate and discover what multiple clipping units do to sound. how quickly will it go towards a square wave, etc!

 

[JohnRoberts]

If you just want to make a clean square wave the typical approach is to feed the AC signal into an open loop op amp or comparator. Cascading a signal through multiple diode clippers in series will experience a build up of noise as each diode clipper will have gain associated with it, so the noise from the first stage will get boosted by the next. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I repeat my suggestion if you want to know what running through multiple units in series sounds like, just do it.

JR

 

[Marssound]

If you just want to make a clean square wave the typical approach is to feed the AC signal into an open loop op amp or comparator. Cascading a signal through multiple diode clippers in series will experience a build up of noise as each diode clipper will have gain associated with it, so the noise from the first stage will get boosted by the next. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I repeat my suggestion if you want to know what running through multiple units in series sounds like, just do it.

JR

If you just want to make a clean square wave the typical approach is to feed the AC signal into an open loop op amp or comparator. Cascading a signal through multiple diode clippers in series will experience a build up of noise as each diode clipper will have gain associated with it, so the noise from the first stage will get boosted by the next. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I repeat my suggestion if you want to know what running through multiple units in series sounds like, just do it.

JR

hello JR,

do you even read what I write: '''''so my goal is not to make a square wave''''

about noise:
I have a studio with the expensive pro studio gear with the best S/N ratio as possible.
but: all music on the records we like to listen to, from Elvis Presley , Supertramp, Frank Zappa, van Halen (to name a few) are full of noise.
Noise is the most normal thing in popmusic recording studio situations. Everything makes noise! tubes, preamps, opamps, mixing desks, guitar amplifiers, effect pedals, etc. It is the sound engineer's job to keep this as low as possible, but a musician or sound engineer who is bothered by noise should better find another job.
fortunately we have music that masks the noise!

about clipping:
I had already explained that I have been using multiple saturation devices in my studio for years and placing them in a row, so using multiple clipping stages is nothing new to me. But anyway, I had already explained it.
As what I said about noise also applies entirely to saturation and therefore clipping in sound studios: it occurs everywhere in the entire recording and mixing chain.
On tape from reel to reel recorders, tubes, transformers, opamps, preamps, amplifiers, mixers, etc. In all these things a form of clipping/saturation can occur.
I recently realized that clipping multiple times in a row theoretically gradually distorts more and more electrical audio signals and can form a square wave. That means: more odd harmonics and therefore also more specific sound mojo. until of course it becomes really nasty distortion.
that is at least interesting to think about when you work in a studio because it is quite normal to connect everything with the idea of creating a great FAT analog sound while all sorts of things are happening invisibly with the audio signal. I want to delve into this a bit more in my studio or to gain even more control and insight into what I am doing.

that is all!

 

[JohnRoberts]

hello JR,

do you even read what I write: '''''so my goal is not to make a square wave''''



that is all!

I repeat my suggestion if you want to know what running through multiple units in series sounds like, just do it.

I learned on the bench decades ago that waveforms rarely sound like you expect, from what they look like. Perhaps a personal problem of mine?

JR

 

[Cqwet Dbdfte]

https://www.analog.com/en/resources/analog-dialogue/raqs/raq-issue-175.html
LTspice can input and output .wav files.
Perhaps close enough?

 

[Marssound]

I repeat my suggestion if you want to know what running through multiple units in series sounds like, just do it.

I learned on the bench decades ago that waveforms rarely sound like you expect, from what they look like. Perhaps a personal problem of mine?

JR

thanks for your effort but my simple question has already been answered to my satisfaction in post 5#.

it is unnecessarily complicated this way and I know perfectly well what I am doing. so I will leave it at that!