Neve Lo1066 clone vs. Carnhill VTB 2569

[Disco Volante]

Hey CJ, draw us muppets a sketch, please...
;-)

 

[CJ]

here ya go...



experiment with different values of C1 to get a good curve, maybe go down in value,
if you want to get fancy

https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/probing_cores

 

[CJ]

here is the way i do it>

 

[CJ]

just used that tester above to scope out a BA6a innerstage

 

[KraftWerk]

I will try to find parts,not need much...CJ, your knowlage and your energy is really great,plus, you are Willing to share your knowledge and experience with us, and not only that, you spend your time answering questions that are probably boring to you...where does that patience come from? And where does that much knowledge come from?What generation are you? Sorry for the personal questions, but I would really like to know..

 

[CJ]

I am retired and have more time than money, thanks for the props, I think it is low self esteem so I try and look like a big shot,but I do love transformers for some strange reason, a lot more exciting to take apart than a transistor.

 

[KraftWerk]

I think it is low self esteem so I try and look like a big shot

Ahh..first time in your post I see something I think is not truth
And, I think you are lucky guy..you are doing what you like.

 

[KraftWerk]

Today i Little play with LO1166, split primar at 4 and sec on 4 ..this is 1166 on stereoids.
Plot is similar besides noticable improvements in hi freq.
Sound is little different in good way..I would say, more hi fi..more even..not agresive, like rnb
Lo1166 maded with CJ footprint is clear rock. Agresive but controlled.Punchy. Kick is great. Sounds more like rock and roll. But unfortunately i dont have original.
If anyone can borrow me one original LO1166 just for sound testing I will give my one for free..i will pay shipping.

 

[KraftWerk]

I want to finish this project ...testing is over, custom bobbin, custom holders, custom bolts and screws...I will have few more of these beauties. I made 2 models, one is copy of 1166, one is advanced 1166, with multiple splits on primar and secondar that have for result more linear response and increased high frequencies, but still great sounding...now i will make 2503, litz wire is already here..

 

[Disco Volante]

Man, those are some fancy-looking transformers. Did you put them through a car-paint shop?
Seems they work as good as they look, congrats!

 

[CJ]

Nice!

 

[KraftWerk]

Man, those are some fancy-looking transformers. Did you put them through a car-paint shop?
Seems they work as good as they look, congrats!

Car paint shop ..I like positive persons same you.. just want to add a touch of personality...maybe is stupid to care so much about aperiance,but many of us is so passionate about transformers and audio..we deserve that!!
BTw, now I'm experimenting with cables, tubing, connection of enamell wire with cables...car shop not accept that type of customatisation...any suggestions?

 

[KraftWerk]

Nice!

I'm glad you like it CJ , that is only 3D drawings, we will se how will production company do their job and quality of powder coatings of holders..also, mold for bobbin is prepared for making...I have one question for you .what do you think, does it have sense to make holes in bobbin, because, when I put bobbin in vacuum Owen, I want varmish go even deeper in winding from all sides...

 

[Dylan W]

I want to finish this project ...testing is over, custom bobbin, custom holders, custom bolts and screws...I will have few more of these beauties. I made 2 models, one is copy of 1166, one is advanced 1166, with multiple splits on primar and secondar that have for result more linear response and increased high frequencies, but still great sounding...now i will make 2503, litz wire is already here..

Nice results. Could you share your winding diagram for what you ended up with? Especially interested in your “improved” 1166

 

[KraftWerk]

Nice results. Could you share your winding diagram for what you ended up with? Especially interested in your “improved” 1166

Please understand this "improved" as improved frequency range... and not as improved sound or quality... It's hard to even think of improving something as good and standard as 1166...I will be very happy to show you how I got my results.I kept the same number of windings as in the original transformer, but I interlaced more primary and secondary windings by dividing P1 P2 and S1 into two separate windings...Secondary 2 is already split in the original transformer. I was very careful to keep the reverse wound primary two which now has two reverse windings.This simple modification resulted in the transformer having a much flat response between 20 hz and 20 kh and the high spectrum being significantly extended compared to the standard transformer. It is more complicated to wind this type of transformer because there are four additional contacts on the back of the transformer. The diameter of the wire and the number of windings as well as the method of winding are unchanged from the notes I have on the 1166 transformer...

 

[Dylan W]

Please understand this "improved" as improved frequency range... and not as improved sound or quality... It's hard to even think of improving something as good and standard as 1166...I will be very happy to show you how I got my results.I kept the same number of windings as in the original transformer, but I interlaced more primary and secondary windings by dividing P1 P2 and S1 into two separate windings...Secondary 2 is already split in the original transformer. I was very careful to keep the reverse wound primary two which now has two reverse windings.This simple modification resulted in the transformer having a much flat response between 20 hz and 20 kh and the high spectrum being significantly extended compared to the standard transformer. It is more complicated to wind this type of transformer because there are four additional contacts on the back of the transformer. The diameter of the wire and the number of windings as well as the method of winding are unchanged from the notes I have on the 1166 transformer...

This is really interesting. It makes me wonder what this more interleaved winding structure would sound like with nickel lams… maybe with, say, a 25-50% stack of 80% nickel with the rest M6. It seems like a fair amount of the “Neve” sound is in this particular transformer and specifically in the reverse wound P2. I often run individual tracks thru a line amp with Carnhills, but sometimes that specific sonic signature feels like “too much,” ie too hairy in the low end. Maybe it’s possible to have a similar sonic signature but cleaner and more hifi. Maybe I will get some lams and experiment…

 

[KraftWerk]

You notice is absolutely right..after few months of everyday experiment I have similar conclusions...maybe I'm wrong but I feel that Carnhill is too bold in low frequencys..maybe that is phase problem because I see on phase graph lift bigger than on my transformers..That bass is bigger than life, and it is not defined, I just feel too much... ,I am also in proces of searching for Nickel Lam's, it is hard to find them, no one wants to sell 10,20, 30 kg...but I will find,I'm sure..

 

[KraftWerk]

I bought 3 transformers to compare with one I made according to CJ drawings.I bought Carnhil Lo1166, ( around 80 EUR with shipping and taxes ) - VTB9049 ,UTM 3548 - Lo1167 - around 55 with shipping, and Original Marinair Lo1166 - 599 eur.
If my wife give me, I will buy Sowter, Cinemag, Ed Anderson versions...
Today, Carnhil came.
Here is results.
I'm not listen yet,just compare in Rew , both in AML73.
Here is results.

 

[KraftWerk]

 

[KraftWerk]

Not yet finished, I use 3d printed bobbins for testing...soon will bobbin come.
So please ,don't laugh yellow