Neve Transformer Surgery?

[tommypiper]

Yeah, funny enough I pulled out an old 283 card I have and it was populated with 107 and 109 transistors.  And the silk screen on the card showed their orientation with the metal can tab.  Obviously they were a standard set of transistors.  Yet I have never seen documentation for them. 

Yes, looking at the 107 data sheets shows they are limited in hfe.  This may explain whey the were only used in certain locations, where high gain was less important? 

Anyway, interesting historical discovery.

KDE, just curious, you seem to want to follow the purist path with all original parts down to these metal can transistors.  Why then are there no tantalums on your 183 card?  (I see you are using them in the new build.)

 

[menigu]

I can confirm that Bc 107 and 109 were used in Neve modules. Worked on a Melbourne console and on a 1064 last week. Both were using 107/109.
Nice build btw!

P.S.: If anybody needs those, I can get you them for a decent price.

Best,

Max

 

[mjrippe]

I can confirm that Bc 107 and 109 were used in Neve modules. Worked on a Melbourne console and on a 1064 last week. Both were using 107/109.
Nice build btw!

P.S.: If anybody needs those, I can get you them for a decent price.

Best,

Max

Do you mean the Melbourne and 1064 or the BC107/109?  ;D

 

[KDE]

Yeah, funny enough I pulled out an old 283 card I have and it was populated with 107 and 109 transistors.  And the silk screen on the card showed their orientation with the metal can tab.  Obviously they were a standard set of transistors.  Yet I have never seen documentation for them. 

Yes, looking at the 107 data sheets shows they are limited in hfe.  This may explain whey the were only used in certain locations, where high gain was less important? 

Anyway, interesting historical discovery.

KDE, just curious, you seem to want to follow the purist path with all original parts down to these metal can transistors.  Why then are there no tantalums on your 183 card?  (I see you are using them in the new build.)

Who ever Teched the 1272 obviously took them out. I am not using that 1272 and ripped out the xformers. Yes there will be Tants in my build. I'd imagine your theory on the 107 is not too far off from the truth.

 

[menigu]

I can confirm that Bc 107 and 109 were used in Neve modules. Worked on a Melbourne console and on a 1064 last week. Both were using 107/109.
Nice build btw!

P.S.: If anybody needs those, I can get you them for a decent price.

Best,

Max

Do you mean the Melbourne and 1064 or the BC107/109?  ;D

;D

 

[TheJames]

Just curious how this turned out...

In the earlier photos in the thread, I saw that there was an additional cap tacked off of pin3 on the 1166 to ground.  Any particular reason that was added?  Did you decide to keep it there?  The board already seems to have all of the relevant capacitance per original schematic (moreso really) at this point in the circuit.

How do you feel these sound?  Do you think the original transformers were worth it?  Any other tweaks to these that you made?

 

[KDE]

Just curious how this turned out...

In the earlier photos in the thread, I saw that there was an additional cap tacked off of pin3 on the 1166 to ground.  Any particular reason that was added?  Did you decide to keep it there?  The board already seems to have all of the relevant capacitance per original schematic (moreso really) at this point in the circuit.

How do you feel these sound?  Do you think the original transformers were worth it?  Any other tweaks to these that you made?

Will shoot out vs original Don NV73 when i get a chance. Best Pre-amp i've ever owned/used got another pair still being finished up by my buddy Nathan. I think it was completely worth it is as that original 10X series Neve vibe is definitely there and I really can't tell a difference until I put them side by side. I do own a AMS 1073LB that gets blown out the water. I want to do a shootout  Vintage Neve 1073 vs.  My Vintage NV73 vs. Don NV73 vs. AMS 1073LB but that takes time and setting up since I don't personally own an OLD 73 and am am swamped trying to finish off an album with a  deadline of next month.

The NV73 unit you see at the beginning of the thread is a borrowed unit a buddy of mine bought that was build by David (Onlymeeee) and so you'd have to ask him.

 

[TheJames]

I spent some time today reviewing the NV73 thread and found out why that cap is there.

David discovered some instability with the NV73 when modified for higher gains in some racks.  That capacitor is meant to stabilize the output. 

I built a pair of these a couple of years ago and am experimenting with them a bit.  They work fine, but I'm looking for a little "more" from them.  I'm definitely interested in hearing about your experiences with these.

 

[API]

Most of the early cards use the BC109/BC107 combo.
There were also a few different output transistors used in the early days, several different brand 2N3055 and there was also another type used on some cards.

If you still are up for trading the roundcan 10468 against a yellow label one i am up for it!

 

[KDE]

Most of the early cards use the BC109/BC107 combo.
There were also a few different output transistors used in the early days, several different brand 2N3055 and there was also another type used on some cards.

If you still are up for trading the roundcan 10468 against a yellow label one i am up for it!

Not quite sure what im going to do with Mr. Round Can. Most likely i will put it up on Evil Bay. I wouldn't mind a swap but since your in Sweden and im in the States it just seems like more work than its worth for me sorry.

 

[API]

Ok, let me know if you change your mind.
Its not much harder to ship to Sweden than inside the states though, not for such a small item.

 

[Unit7]

Just curious how this turned out...

In the earlier photos in the thread, I saw that there was an additional cap tacked off of pin3 on the 1166 to ground.  Any particular reason that was added?  Did you decide to keep it there?  The board already seems to have all of the relevant capacitance per original schematic (moreso really) at this point in the circuit.

How do you feel these sound?  Do you think the original transformers were worth it?  Any other tweaks to these that you made?

Will shoot out vs original Don NV73 when i get a chance. Best Pre-amp i've ever owned/used got another pair still being finished up by my buddy Nathan. I think it was completely worth it is as that original 10X series Neve vibe is definitely there and I really can't tell a difference until I put them side by side. I do own a AMS 1073LB that gets blown out the water. I want to do a shootout  Vintage Neve 1073 vs.  My Vintage NV73 vs. Don NV73 vs. AMS 1073LB but that takes time and setting up since I don't personally own an OLD 73 and am am swamped trying to finish off an album with a  deadline of next month.

Really interested to hear your impressions after that shootout. And please expand on your 'AMS1073LB blown out the water' statement. What's the differences you are hearing?

Me and a friend did a shootout on drums the other week, testing AMS reissue 1084s, NV73s and CAPI stuff. I've posted links to files over at RGO. For drums I felt I needed four channels of each (BD, SD and OHs) to be able to compare so I've looked forward to having built enough for this shootout. Unfortunately we didn't have any originals in the shootout, but I've been working many times in a studio in Stockholm with an original 24ch Neve console with 1084s so I believe I've got a feeling for what they do. My conclusion after the shootout is that, if I'm able to choose I do prefer the subtle thing that the Neves do on drums. Perhaps it's only because I'm so used to it. At the same time, the differences are subtle and at normal gain settings I'm not sure I would even spot the differences between any of the contenders. However when pushing them I did clealry prefer the Neve clones.

I do this research for a possible future studio build and my original plan was to provide options for my clients by having 24+ pres of each of the Neve clones, API clones and then a really clean/quiet brand like DAV or NPNG. But after this shootout, hearing the very subtle differences and also feeling that I'm leaning slightly  towards the Neve tradition, I'll probably just keep making NV73s, settle for 'only' one rack of CAPI stuff and then get some really clean pres for classical and very dynamic recordings. I feel the choice of musician, instruments, room, mic and mic placement are just so much more important.

 

[TheJames]

KDE, just curious, you seem to want to follow the purist path with all original parts down to these metal can transistors.  Why then are there no tantalums on your 183 card?  (I see you are using them in the new build.)

The tantalums are on the card, but they aren't the solid "bead" style tantalums that we're used to.  The Plessey brand 6.8u axial capacitors on the board are "wet" tantalum and I would suggest are original.

 

[weiss]

wow. good work!

 

[KDE]

Update:  We've had all 8 of them finished for quite a while now. So i figured I'd put up some pics. also we switched the metal Elma replica knobs for the more classic plastic Marconi knobs . For some reason I just like the look and feel of the originals better  ;D