New SSL Analog Console …… built from "ground" ?

[r2d2]

Hi all

SSL new analog console start from 49,000 bucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfTpEM1HlkM

built from ground ?
say yours about ,
cheers

 

[pucho812]

they took a lot of ideas from the old  4000 series desks.  no automation,  no compression on each channel,  1 size for all 32 channels of inline, 16 bus sends plus a stereo bus. Nothing too terribly exciting. about it's only real feature is the fader to unity switch which bypasses the fader to use it as an analog summing box.  which defeats the point to having an SSL. Plus mixing on an SSL was because their automation was better then most not because it sounded amazing. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

they took a lot of ideas from the old  4000 series desks.  no automation,  no compression on each channel,  1 size for all 32 channels of inline, 16 bus sends plus a stereo bus. Nothing to terribly exciting. about it's only real feature is the fader to unity switch which bypasses the fader to use it as an analog summing box.  which defeats the point to having an SSL. PLus mixing on an SSL was because their automation was better then most not because it sounded amazing.

yup

But brand name has perceived value.

JR

 

[pucho812]

yup

But brand name has perceived value.

JR

Ay...

 

[bluebird]

What always interested me in the SSL's is the DC coupling of the signal path. I'm not familiar with it as my repair days were spent mostly on Neve VR's which had blocking caps between everything like periods at the end of sentences...
Anyone out there familiar with this and can comment on the advantages of a fully DC coupled console? Or was it just certain blocks of the channel? Phase? distortion?

 

[pucho812]

Avalon designs does dc coupling as well...  one advantage is improved low end response and coupling caps are out of the signal path...

 

[iomegaman]

Didn't Peter Gabriel and a partner buy SSL back in 2005?

...not that any of this would be on him...maybe they've tapped out the future and are trying to return to the past.

 

[JohnRoberts]

What always interested me in the SSL's is the DC coupling of the signal path. I'm not familiar with it as my repair days were spent mostly on Neve VR's which had blocking caps between everything like periods at the end of sentences...
Anyone out there familiar with this and can comment on the advantages of a fully DC coupled console? Or was it just certain blocks of the channel? Phase? distortion?

There is no DC music... even modest amounts of DC cause clicky switches, scratchy pots, and worse.

Only fairly recently have modern IC op amps improved their DC performance (input offsets) to the point that coupling caps can be considered unnecessary, but we still have to deal with random audio inputs that can contain DC. Any DC coming into a DC coupled path would propagate switch clicks and scratchy pots throughout.

Only transformer based mic preamps can keep phantom voltage isolated from the audio path without blocking capacitors (there are other ways but none have been exploited commercially AFAIK.)

Many audio paths declared to be "capacitor free"  : actually use servos which have guess what? Yup capacitors inside, which are still in the effective audio path. The benefit of servos is that you can use small high quality film caps, instead of large aluminum electrolytic, but there still be caps there so caveat lector (reader beware).

In my judgement and experience keeping HPF poles from DC blocking capacitors octaves below the lowest audio content keeps even inexpensive aluminum electrolytic caps very well behaved. I liked to establish a well defined LF skirt using a film capacitor (I haven't used aluminum for audio band poles since the 70s).   

SSL was a pioneer in full recall automation... the audio path performance was tolerated to gain that automation benefit, of course later SSL paths improved, but that was never the attraction for the brand.

JR

 

[iampoor1]

"The old IC's dont exist anymore and are not friendly to the environment" 

The few SSL 4000s Ive been inside are all loaded with 5534s....  :

 

[mjrippe]

"The old IC's dont exist anymore and are not friendly to the environment" 

The few SSL 4000s Ive been inside are all loaded with 5534s....  :

Where is that quote from?  It is nonsense.

Although I was never an SSL guy, I think that the dynamics on each channel and the routing flexibility were also attractions for mix engineers.  Will this new thing have a market, I couldn't even guess.

 

[JohnRoberts]

"The old IC's dont exist anymore and are not friendly to the environment" 

The few SSL 4000s Ive been inside are all loaded with 5534s....  :

I am not trying to dis SSL at this late date.

Ne5534 were "new" in the 1970s....  Those are not the modern ICs with good DC performance I was talking about. 

Indeed the 553x and 07x op amp families were inexpensive and well faster than required for audio so they don't suck when applied competently.

JR

 

[[silent:arts]]

The few SSL 4000s Ive been inside are all loaded with 5534s....  :

The Duality mixbus is with LT1115.

 

[[silent:arts]]

Didn't Peter Gabriel and a partner buy SSL back in 2005?

Yes. But last year he sold it to the Audiotonix group (DiGiCo, Calrec, Allen & Heath, Digigrid)

 

[boji]

http://sslweb.solidstatelogic.com.s3.amazonaws.com/content/SSL-Lifting-The-Veil.pdf

"No Electrolytic Capacitors
The physical construction of an electrolytic capacitor means that its performance is imprecise, it is vulnerable to electro-magnetic interference, and even expensive ‘high-quality’ electrolytics do not meet our standards. In addition, over time and
with temperature variations, electrolytic capacitors degrade and become ‘leaky’ - resulting in significant noise issues, altered characteristics, and a shortened product life. SSL avoids using electrolytic capacitors for decoupling between analogue stages wherever possible. Instead we use advanced DC servo coupling techniques for low noise, high precision DC offset control."

At least they didn't say a well-functioning lytic makes for bad audio.

 

[shot]

As I'm raised on SSL 4000 and simply love that console, I was excited to see what's the new console they have.

But I'm not impressed.

No dynamics! C'mon!
Bypassing faders... what for? Why would I use that feature? Simple summing? I can have that for a fraction of price!
Inserts on small fader? Any decent studio already has all inputs normalized on patchbay where you can insert gear.
Busses on rotary faders!?! I got rid od Trident 8T mostly because of that feature. You can't simply turn up and down your drum buss since you always missalign L-R pots.
No dedicated returns with HP-LP filters for FX units...
No automation? They could at least motorise the big faders and use some HUI or whatever protocol. At this price tag... c'mon
No automation?
No automation!

I won't compare it soundwise, but I got most of the features (eq-ing the direct out, paralleling gear and similar stuff) on my Soundcraft Sapphyre that I got  used for 3% of SSL Origin's retail price. Hey and if I want to go nuts with it, I can get used automation for it! Or even better - I have plenty of room under the fader to install Zam's automation that rocks (sorry Zam, I'm out of budget for now!)



Luka

 

[JohnRoberts]

http://sslweb.solidstatelogic.com.s3.amazonaws.com/content/SSL-Lifting-The-Veil.pdf

"No Electrolytic Capacitors
The physical construction of an electrolytic capacitor means that its performance is imprecise,

huh?

it is vulnerable to electro-magnetic interference,

huh? All else equal film caps are physically larger so larger antennas.

and even expensive ‘high-quality’ electrolytics do not meet our standards.

what standards?  Show me the numbers.

In addition, over time and
with temperature variations, electrolytic capacitors degrade and become ‘leaky’ - resulting in significant noise issues, altered characteristics, and a shortened product life.

that is a mouthful... of marketing mumbo jumbo. I am not aware of specific noise issues related to leakage. Perhaps in the phantom voltage DC blocking circuit node where leakage current could show up as input signal. The more common problem related to leakage is low capacitance that is not much of a problem if you start tuning HP poles several octaves below audibility.

SSL avoids using electrolytic capacitors for decoupling between analogue stages wherever possible.

whatever...

Instead we use advanced DC servo coupling techniques for low noise, high precision DC offset control."

By definition a DC servo with active components is higher noise than a passive DC blocking RC... :

But they said "low" noise, not lower noise.

At least they didn't say a well-functioning lytic makes for bad audio.

But would you vote for an electrolytic capacitor after reading that?

JR

PS: I am not dissing SSL consoles, just voodoo marketing.

 

[fazer]

I don’t remember the no caps in the signal path until the 9000 came out. 
When I got to mix on a 4K one time ,  It was the vac grouping that allowed a broadcast mix easily for 2 different bands.  There were 64 channels and the vca  groups allowed me to easily do drum group, bass ,vocal and acoustic guitars mando fiddle .    I would just ride the groups.  Easily changed from band one to band two by muting vca,s for band one and switching on band two vca groups.  One more vca group for MC.  Show was a piece of cake.  I was in mix heaven.  Made me look good.  I loved the remote truck with the 4K.  Brilliant Brodcast.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I don’t remember the no caps in the signal path until the 9000 came out. 
When I got to mix on a 4K one time ,  It was the vac grouping that allowed a broadcast mix easily for 2 different bands.  There were 64 channels and the vca  groups allowed me to easily do drum group, bass ,vocal and acoustic guitars mando fiddle .    I would just ride the groups.  Easily changed from band one to band two by muting vca,s for band one and switching on band two vca groups.  One more vca group for MC.  Show was a piece of cake.  I was in mix heaven.  Made me look good.  I loved the remote truck with the 4K.  Brilliant Brodcast.

exactly... good ergonomics, good features...

JR

 

[pucho812]

Yes SSL didn't get into dc coupled circuitry until their SSL 9000 consoles.  they continued down that path with the Duality and small format AWS.

If you want marketing mumbo jumbo,  their are other companies that are better at it then SSL.

 

[r2d2]

…...No automation? They could at least motorise the big faders and use some HUI or whatever protocol. At this price tag... c'mon
No automation?
No automation!

I won't compare it soundwise, but I got most of the features (eq-ing the direct out, paralleling gear and similar stuff) on my Soundcraft Sapphyre that I got  used for 3% of SSL Origin's retail price. Hey and if I want to go nuts with it, I can get used automation for it! Or even better - I have plenty of room under the fader to install Zam's automation that rocks (sorry Zam, I'm out of budget for now!)



Luka

correct me if i'm wrong
but Origin console start from 49,000 bucks….

it is only 10,000 bucks less than the AWS console  with automation ?

and what about an used  32 channels 4000G+ for 25-35,000 bucks ?
or Neve V 36 channels ….
and the difference on cool variegated outboard setup , ….. diy too
…..expensives for maintenance ?

cheers