New way of payment: Bitcoin

[pasi_k]

This should be taken under consideration for both small and big businesses?
No payment fees and transfer happens instantly.
Sellers might even give discounts due the highly deflationary nature of this currency, instead of inflationary fiat-currencies such as Euro, Usd, GBP...etc.
Only 21 million of these digital coins will be created until 2040, but these are easily dividable by thousands and millions of smaller units (milliBtc, microBtc).
One Bitcoin is worth of ~900usd at the time of writing: High volativity in the stock markets distorts its use as a money. But long median asking/bidding price of Btc has been rising. Most importantly, this new techno-financial experiment is to teach for all of us what the money, or currency really is and means.  8)

 

[rob_gould]

I've been following this closely.  As far as I can tell, it won't be taken seriously until the price settles and for that the speculation on its value needs to stop, or at least calm right down.

Perhaps in 5 or 20 years time, Bitcoin or something that follows it will be widely used for all the good reasons you pointed out.  But at the moment, it's too complicated for the average computer user and there's too great a chance of having your money pinched.

 

[Kingston]

Currently it just seems like another form of gambling and money laundering. I can't remember the exact statistic but something like less than 10% of all bitcoins in circulation are used for trades, including the drug and money laundering related services. The rest is speculation and gambling.

The upward trend of the past year also resembles the many other kinds of ponzi schemes of the past. Instead of teaching yourself what currency really is through bitcoin, teach yourself what ponzi scheme means. They are also deflationary by nature.

Also, http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=49985.0

 

[zebra50]

And you can bet that our governments are working right now on how to tax this!

 

[kooma]

Currently it just seems like another form of gambling and money laundering. I can't remember the exact statistic but something like less than 10% of all bitcoins in circulation are used for trades, including the drug and money laundering related services. The rest is speculation and gambling.

The upward trend of the past year also resembles the many other kinds of ponzi schemes of the past. Instead of teaching yourself what currency really is through bitcoin, teach yourself what ponzi scheme means. They are also deflationary by nature.

Also, http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=49985.0

+1

I liked the idea of bitcoin, but maybe we should have "invested" on it few years ago,
now I'm just scared that if I put any money on it the bubble will burst

 

[pucho812]

invest in it and what? Where do you sell your investment?  How do you collect for that? 

 

[JohnRoberts]

We have discussed this before.

There was recently a congressional hearing about Bitcoin and as a surprise to everybody they didn't slam it, so the price bumped up even more on that news.

Bank regulators all around the world are trying to get a handle on this since there are already a significant fraction of illicit transactions occurring.

The organization behind Bitcoin remains secretive, and the price trend looks like a classic bubble. While some argue that Bitcoin will be a long term reservoir of value or wealth, with no apparent backing (no government FDIC insurance on bitcoins), it is easy to imagine them going all the way to zero if/when they fall out of fashion and the music stops.

I can not imagine central bankers and world governments looking the other way should this become a significant currency replacement. Gold at least has some residual commercial value as a currency hedge (I own a small amount JIC). Gold may drop further from here but should not ever go to zero.

Some people who gambled on Bitcoin years ago have seen large gains. If you are one of those lucky early gamblers, please sell at least enough to recoup your initial investment so you can play with the houses money from here and will never lose real money.

If you don't own Bitcoin like me, yawn...

JR

 

[jackies]

This should be taken under consideration for both small and big businesses?
No payment fees and transfer happens instantly.

Yeah, and most importantly it's absolutely anonymous, so no way to track your purchases, dispute transactions, etc. I doubt it'd ever be used to sell tangible goods.

 

[JohnRoberts]

This should be taken under consideration for both small and big businesses?
No payment fees and transfer happens instantly.

Yeah, and most importantly it's absolutely anonymous, so no way to track your purchases, dispute transactions, etc. I doubt it'd ever be used to sell tangible goods.

Some guy just bought a tesla with bitcoin from an exotic used car dealer... I doubt that car dealer still has the bitcoins.

I am not enthusiastic about bitcoin. it looks like payments via mobile technology are a real trend for business.

JR

 

[jackies]

Well, I'd imagine the dude who bought the tesla won't leave the dealership without the car. Or did he order it shipped to a hotel lobby in Nigeria?

 

[Kingston]

And you can bet that our governments are working right now on how to tax this!

Indeed. http://www.geek.com/news/us-government-shuts-down-production-of-physical-bitcoins-1579581/
And just last week China banned financial companies from using bitcoin for transactions.

Some people who gambled on Bitcoin years ago have seen large gains. If you are one of those lucky early gamblers, please sell at least enough to recoup your initial investment so you can play with the houses money from here and will never lose real money.

And indeed. http://www.businessinsider.com/927-people-own-half-of-the-bitcoins-2013-12

 

[Script]

...it looks like payments via mobile technology are a real trend for business.

Yeah, in Tokyo you can pay in some convenience stores and some other stores via your mobile phone -- in the real window-dresser's currency of the Japanese yen of course. It started with a metro card kind of thing a couple of years ago and is slowly moving towards credit card status now. Such apps might make wallets and ATMs obsolete at some point in the future, but what if I forgot to recharge my phone's battery? Happens to me all the time...

Another benefit: payments via mobile technology facilitate tracking down easily who transferred how much money when to who and where exactly. -- Oh no, there goes my alibi for cheating on my wife... Err, I think I should seriously consider Bitcoins while they are still safe.

But then gain, maybe one day my dream comes true and I can pay all my gas, water, electricity, Internet, TV, insurance and income tax, Internet auction and mailorder bills quickly and easily via my phone from home, instead of what's it's like now, cos I have to take all these barcoded paperslips down to the convenience store (i.e. like a Deli) around the corner, withdraw money from the ATM there and then have the barcoded paperslip scanned at the counter to make my payment in cash -- so inconvenient!

BTW, anyone willing to share schematics for an EMP generator? You know, I have this little side project going... a mobile pocket-sized device to blitzbuff my annoying neighbour...

 

[abbey road d enfer]

But then gain, maybe one day my dream comes true and I can pay all my gas, water, electricity, Internet, TV, insurance and income tax, Internet auction and mailorder bills quickly and easily via my phone from home, instead of what's it's like now, cos I have to take all these barcoded paperslips down to the convenience store (i.e. like a Deli) around the corner, withdraw money from the ATM there and then have the barcoded paperslip scanned at the counter to make my payment in cash -- so inconvenient!

I don't know how to react to this, since you seem so tongue-in-cheek. We already have Google Wallet, Cityzi, Skimm and PayPal-Here. They all use NFC technology that's buit-in most smartphones. In France, we can pay "gas, water, electricity, Internet, TV, insurance and income tax", errrh, no, not the insurance, with a smartphone or just any computer.
What strikes me is that the consensus is that we are lagging US and Asia in that respect. Could it be someone are lying to us? No, it just can't happen in a civilized world, where finance doesn't need regulation because of the market's self-regulation.

BTW, anyone willing to share schematics for an EMP generator? You know, I have this little side project going... a mobile pocket-sized device to blitzbuff my annoying neighbour...

I have considered using a drone for that. Loaded with stink bombs. :

 

[JohnRoberts]

I hope you guys sold at least some of your bitcoins a week ago when I suggested taking profits. It dropped over 50% when China clamped down on Yuan to bitcoin banking...

This kind of volatility is not unusual when there is no real backing for a wannabe currency. The real currencies are bad enough.

JR

 

[Script]

Any business accepting Bitcoins as payment still interested in giving discounts now?

 

[desol]

I hope you guys sold at least some of your bitcoins a week ago when I suggested taking profits. It dropped over 50% when China clamped down on Yuan to bitcoin banking...

This kind of volatility is not unusual when there is no real backing for a wannabe currency. The real currencies are bad enough.

JR

I wish I would've gambled on that one a long time ago, would've been easy cash. But then again, who's involved in the online black market trade scene?

 

[JohnRoberts]

yes, being able to make bets or trades with knowledge of  the outcome could be very profitable ( as artistically explored in Back to the Future).

JR

 

[jackies]

bets or trades with knowledge of  the outcome

That's the most important part of it - one guy I know mined a bit of bitcoin and it was always his story that whenever he sells some to pay the bills or whatever, it grows next week, then he's like, oh, it's growing! and buys some, and it drops next week...
:

 

[ramshackles]

Now would be the time to buy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25428866

of course...it's so volatile that it could just be the start of a bigger crash..

 

[Phrazemaster]

The unsettling aspect of all this to me is the fact that a bitcoin is a digital creation; it has no real counterpart in life. IE you can't hold a bitcoin (yes I'm aware there was a guy creating actual bitcoins but that's a digression).

In other words, it's fiat money on steroids. It doesn't exist except as a concept or 0s/1s on a computer.

This is also at the heart of our current monetary system - banks lend out many times more money than they actually have (Fractional Reserve Lending) which again is built on "air" if you will.

The ability to trade "nothing" and make a profit as the middleman has been going on for ages, and it's one of the great sources of corruption of the entire financial system. I realize bitcoins are made by the fringe, the "rebels" who want to create something new, but really it's not new at all - it's just a better way to manipulate "air" money and control people.

Whatever happened to trading something of VALUE?

Sigh.