New way of payment: Bitcoin

[JohnRoberts]

Not sure, but did Mt. Gox just file for bankruptcy?

yes...  Supposedly only 6% of bitcoins in circulation, but that will be little consolation to the former owners of some 850,000 bitcoins.

Dollar bills have serial numbers, surely a digital currency has an unique digital signature that could be tracked.

What could go wrong with a DIY digital currency?

JR

 

[gyraf]

Why is this different from any type of creditcard/bank-account fraud? I mean; other than the obvious, that it has to do with a rouge currency, that (for logical reasons) gets very little love from the established system?

As a conspiracy theorist, I'd call foul play from a government agency in this case  ;D

Dollar bills have serial numbers

Yes, If you're lucky enough to 1) Have been robbed "in cash", 2) Have kept track on serials (who would?)

Bitcoins have a unique ID that is part of every transfer, and iiuc also in public record. I actually think it makes them harder to steal, because there ia s public record of every bitcoin, and in which account it resides - just the account holder is possibly anon (although I may have misunderstood the transfer mechanism).

Jakob E.

 

[Andy Peters]

Not sure, but did Mt. Gox just file for bankruptcy?

See here: http://valleywag.gawker.com/bitcoin-kingpin-admits-everyones-money-is-gone-1533315083

If I was this guy, I would have run off to an undisclosed secure location last week!

-a

 

[JohnRoberts]

Why is this different from any type of creditcard/bank-account fraud? I mean; other than the obvious, that it has to do with a rouge currency, that (for logical reasons) gets very little love from the established system?

As a conspiracy theorist, I'd call foul play from a government agency in this case  ;D

There have been several cases where bitcoin exchanges have had their real currency bank accounts siezed or locked until they formally register with the appropriate banking agency and follow the rules appropriate for what they are doing.  Whatever exactly that is.

Dollar bills have serial numbers

Yes, If you're lucky enough to 1) Have been robbed "in cash", 2) Have kept track on serials (who would?)

Bitcoins have a unique ID that is part of every transfer, and iiuc also in public record. I actually think it makes them harder to steal, because there ia s public record of every bitcoin, and in which account it resides - just the account holder is possibly anon (although I may have misunderstood the transfer mechanism).

Jakob E.

OK, so they do have digital serial numbers... That means the 750,000 with another 100,000 owned by Mt Gox could be tracked and recovered? I really hope they do, but it doesn't sound like that is the plan.

JR

 

[Script]

Bitcoins VERSUS Pokemon

And now what? Sue anon?

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/03/01/national/japan-finds-bitcoins-can-bite-back-too/#.UxKmkqxduNY

 

[pasi_k]

Bitcoins claim to be a deflationary system, cos the amount of Bitcoins is "strictly" limited. The smallest unit of a Bitcoin is called a "Satoshi" (1/100,000,000 BTC or 0.00000001 BTC). All very fine so far, but also metaphysical in nature, cos who gives me the guarantee that one day there won't be a Satoshi cent? Well, it really doesn't matter where we add the 0's -- the result is the same.

It is fundamental difference between where you add zero; before or after the comma.
In BTC´s there will never be 210 million, etc, because of the made cryptomathematical barrier.
Contrary, in fiat currencies we can only say: print baby print, as you have always done in your and others misery 8)

There have been several cases where bitcoin exchanges have had their real currency bank accounts siezed or locked until they formally register with the appropriate banking agency and follow the rules appropriate for what they are doing.  Whatever exactly that is.

Dollar bills have serial numbers

Yes, If you're lucky enough to 1) Have been robbed "in cash", 2) Have kept track on serials (who would?)

Bitcoins have a unique ID that is part of every transfer, and iiuc also in public record. I actually think it makes them harder to steal, because there ia s public record of every bitcoin, and in which account it resides - just the account holder is possibly anon (although I may have misunderstood the transfer mechanism).

Jakob E.

OK, so they do have digital serial numbers... That means the 750,000 with another 100,000 owned by Mt Gox could be tracked and recovered? I really hope they do, but it doesn't sound like that is the plan.

JR

Certainly Jakob is on raight trail. BTC´s claimed immunity to tracking is among one of the stupidiest snake-oils in tomorrows stories.
Actually, one being charge of bigger criminal organizations would never touch bitcoins. Instead they will rely on common fiat safe-havens and paradise islands with utmost bank-secrecy.

There is certainly a lot of place to learn about the money  8)

 

[JohnRoberts]

On the subject of currency today's big mover is the ruble. Russia's central bank has raised their interest rate 1.5% (to 7%) to defend the falling ruble that is hitting new (recent) exchange rate lows. It looks like the currency traders are applying more pressure than Western leaders with rhetoric.

The IMF and western government are looking to put together a multi-Billion dollar bail out for the troubled Ukraine economy, but that may be pointless. Putin can just raise the price he charges for the gas he sells to the Ukraine to siphon off a bunch of that western cash.

Interesting times..

JR

 

[Mbira]

Any of you guys actually using bitcoins?  I currently use an online wallet.  Do any of you guys have your own private wallet? 

 

[JohnRoberts]

nope...

JR

 

[Script]

A private wallet is safer I'd assume (though it can get lost), but pure assumptions are hardly ever the smart way!

About adding 0's. This ain't my idea -- some university professor or economics hotshot guy raised it. The criticism is this: Bitcoins as a currency can theoretically (and practically, I'd think) be expanded by another cryptomathematically safe virtual currency and a fixed exchange rate -- as in 1 Satoshi equals 10/100/1000 etc units of another yet-to-be-created virtual currency. The effect really is the same: let's call it "step-controlled" inflation. Absolutely positively unthinkable? If so, why? Yes, there is still a lot to learn (me included) and I love being convinced by arguments.

+
Russia: I think it is also about who will be the creditor of the Ukraine in future. Sad thought.

 

[JohnRoberts]

+
Russia: I think it is also about who will be the creditor of the Ukraine in future. Sad thought.

I have mixed feelings about sending unlimited aid to Ukraine. While we will support any democratic effort, they are not exactly a bastion of fair markets and the rule of law. It is ironic to hear the class warfare arguments made about the US wealthy when you look at the concentration of wealth in the oligarchs there.

I think our current foreign policy of speaking loudly and carrying a small stick will not be very helpful there.

That said I do not advocate military action there, the Crimea is already occupied. If we want to help the people of the Ukraine over the longer term, we need to ramp up exporting our surfeit of natural gas to Europe to reduce Russian economic influence over them by being their major gas supplier.

The cold war was won by western economic force and we need to use our present energy resource blessings to gain influence and reduce the influence of bad actors around the world. 

JR

PS: Looking at the Chinese Yuan valuation trend some huge hedge funds had their head handed to them for making leveraged bets on the direction of the Yuan.  ;D ;D Good..... But we still need to be careful about strength of the dollar as a reserve currency.

PPS: An unrelated but interesting economic observation, some significant fraction of factories in Germany have gone off the grid and are making their own electrical power, to avoid the cost increases from government mandated renewable energy subsidies. The government is now talking about taxiing power that companies make for their own use. Interesting times. That can't be good for business or jobs.

 

[SSLtech]

After Mt.Gox, the next domino falls... 'Flexcoin' has shut down after announcing a disappearance of significant numbers of bitcoins...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/us-bitcoin-flexcoin-idUSBREA2329B20140304

 

[Andy Peters]

Oh, yes, this:

The Face Behind Bitcoin.

 

[JohnRoberts]

To keep this interesting Mt Gox just "found" some 200,000 bitcoins in an old format wallet...  So a fraction of the 850,000 missing. They need to check all of their pockets.

JR

 

[Script]

Just learned that in Japan -- the country of peculiarities -- homebrewing beer with more than 1% alcohol by volume is illegal    Hardly anyone ever got fined though, only if trying to sell.

Anyway, kits are available and they all come with warnings explaining the law. Fine so far, but they are also very very expensive.

I think I'd better search for my long lost wallet

 

[JohnRoberts]

The IRS has recently ruled that bitcoin are considered "property" so subject to capital gains taxation from profitable trading. I guess that also means losses are deductible (against other profitable trades).

JR

 

[Script]

US Marshals Bitcoin Auction (June)

Although Bitcoins are considered "property", I guess the US government sold those confiscated Bitcoins because they don't see them an asset valuable enough to serve as part of a "mixed portfolio" (alongside gold, silver, you-name-it) to back fiat money?

Either way, let's assume the attached image showed the wave form of a drum kick sent through a compressor. Look at the attack and release. What would you think? Distorted? Twisted? Definitely some weird things going on here. Maybe it's just a faulty cap, maybe it's systemic, maybe the entire design is botched up. Hard to say -- we need schematics.

 

[JohnRoberts]

That volatility looks like it would be raw meat for high speed traders if traded on an exchange.

I see more merchants starting to accept it as a medium of exchange for transactions. Keeping track of it for tax purposes in US seems like a huge hassle.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

The US military command held a meeting with representatives of the bitcoin community to better understand how it might be used in illicit transactions by terrorist groups.

Not exactly a like minded group, but exchanging knowledge and education is good.

JR