Official C12 Clone - Build and Support Thread

[mjmajilton]

Thomannmusic.com

 

[mjmajilton]

Thomannmusic.com

 

[Accelerator]

@Nick6691​

Hi
Does anyboby know where to buy the:

TPS100 Tube Microphone Power Supply?​

I wouldn’t suggest you or recommend you to buy the TPS100 Tube Microphone Power Supply - Studio 939, because as you can see by the description, this is a common power supply for the OEM Chinese (Alcron “family”) microphones and as you know the transformer of this PSU typically supplied with a dual winding of 195 AC Volts as HT and 9 AC Volts as LT, so you will have a wholla lotsa of work and cost of money to tame down the pretty high HT Voltage of 210 DC Volts Vb to the 120 DC Volts Vb that all of these AKG C-12, AKG-Telefunken ELA-M 251E, Neumann – Gefell UM57, Neumann - Gefell CMV563 microphone clones need…

For the same kind of money (€99 Euros for the European market) as a much more better choice you can buy the Premium Tube Microphone Transformer PSU by Mic&Mod which is designing to be a 120 DC Volts Vb P.S.U. …

 

[Nick6691]

so you will have a wholla lotsa of work and cost of money to tame down the pretty high HT Voltage of 210 DC Volts Vb to the 120 DC Volts Vb that all of these AKG C-12, AKG-Telefunken ELA-M 251E, Neumann – Gefell UM57, Neumann - Gefell CMV563 microphone clones need…

Accelerator, that was my intension, just like in danys or chungers mod. Keep chassis, transformer and XLRs and build a new psu pcb that drops in the box.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kt3a....pdf?rlkey=6h2mg4qbxywhk8y9j5kg15a8e&e=1&dl=0

Nick

 

[HerbertR]

@Nick6691​

I wouldn’t suggest you or recommend you to buy the TPS100 Tube Microphone Power Supply - Studio 939, because as you can see by the description, this is a common power supply for the OEM Chinese (Alcron “family”) microphones and as you know the transformer of this PSU typically supplied with a dual winding of 195 AC Volts as HT and 9 AC Volts as LT, so you will have a wholla lotsa of work and cost of money to tame down the pretty high HT Voltage of 210 DC Volts Vb to the 120 DC Volts Vb that all of these AKG C-12, AKG-Telefunken ELA-M 251E, Neumann – Gefell UM57, Neumann - Gefell CMV563 microphone clones need…

For the same kind of money (€99 Euros for the European market) as a much more better choice you can buy the Premium Tube Microphone Transformer PSU by Mic&Mod which is designing to be a 120 DC Volts Vb P.S.U. …

The original C12 circuit needs a fixed negative bias voltage like in Danys PCBs. Matadors PCBs are L-Shaped. Therefore, it makes sense to use these Thomann SCT2000 / TPS100 ... Apex China Tube Mic PSU cases, as Dany's or Matadors included power supply board from the C12 Mic Kit fits right in and also uses the included stock 180V/9V transformer. In all other cases like Thomann's Retro Style, MnMs ... Dany's L-shaped C12/251 boards do not fit properly I have used lots of all of these different cases and have already installed several PCBs from Dany's excellent kits. It makes sense to use exactly these flat SCT2000... cases. Compared with Dany's U47 Tube Mic PSU PCBs, a MnM or Retro case fits here perfectly. BR Herbert

 

[Accelerator]

@Nick6691​

Accelerator, that was my intension, just like in danys or chungers mod. Keep chassis, transformer and XLRs and build a new psu pcb that drops in the box.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kt3a....pdf?rlkey=6h2mg4qbxywhk8y9j5kg15a8e&e=1&dl=0

Nick

As you can see Chunger’s TPS100 Tube Microphone Power Supply - Studio 939, is Out of Stock so you have to e-mail him, fix an order with him, pay the (high) shipping fee from U.S.A. to Sweden, pay the (high) customs, pay the (high) V.A.T. to get the TPS100 Tube Microphone Power Supply - Studio 939 to your door…

After all of this (if you already got the microphone & the P.S.U. boards in your hand…) you have -in the same way...- to pay the (high) shipping fee from Farnell UK to Sweden, pay the (high) customs, pay the V.A.T. - to get the whole B.O.M. of electronic passive components that will need and that you already have to pay for them to buy them, just to be sure that the microphone pcb board & the P.S.U. pcb board will work as a valve microphone…

Till this time I haven’t included in this whole buying “task” the whole cost of the CK-12 type capsule that you will need to pay to buy it, the whole cost of the Microphone’s Body kit that you will need to pay to buy it … etc. etc…. and unfortunately for you and for me and for us as every European DIYs - the Europe -as you already know…- it is not just like U.S.A. with just $50 U.S.D. shipping fee -coast to coast-, with no (high) Customs & no (high) V.A.T.s…

Basil.

 

[Nick6691]

The original C12 circuit needs a fixed negative bias voltage like in Danys PCBs. Matadors PCBs are L-Shaped. Therefore, it makes sense to use these Thomann SCT2000 / TPS100 ... Apex China Tube Mic PSU cases, as Dany's or Matadors included power supply board from the C12 Mic Kit fits right in and also uses the included stock 180V/9V transformer. In all other cases like Thomann's Retro Style, MnMs ... Dany's L-shaped C12/251 boards do not fit properly I have used lots of all of these different cases and have already installed several PCBs from Dany's excellent kits. It makes sense to use exactly these flat SCT2000... cases. Compared with Dany's U47 Tube Mic PSU PCBs, a MnM or Retro case fits here perfectly. BR Herbert

Thanks HerbertR
Didn`t know that one. Looks like the same size.
Is the transforner specs the same as TSP100?

Nick

 

[Nick6691]

@Nick6691​

As you can see Chunger’s TPS100 Tube Microphone Power Supply - Studio 939, is Out of Stock so you have to e-mail him, fix an order with him, pay the (high) shipping fee from U.S.A. to Sweden, pay the (high) customs, pay the (high) V.A.T. to get the TPS100 Tube Microphone Power Supply - Studio 939 to your door…

After all of this (if you already got the microphone & the P.S.U. boards in your hand…) you have -in the same way...- to pay the (high) shipping fee from Farnell UK to Sweden, pay the (high) customs, pay the V.A.T. - to get the whole B.O.M. of electronic passive components that will need and that you already have to pay for them to buy them, just to be sure that the microphone pcb board & the P.S.U. pcb board will work as a valve microphone…

Till this time I haven’t included in this whole buying “task” the whole cost of the CK-12 type capsule that you will need to pay to buy it, the whole cost of the Microphone’s Body kit that you will need to pay to buy it … etc. etc…. and unfortunately for you and for me and for us as every European DIYs - the Europe -as you already know…- it is not just like U.S.A. with just $50 U.S.D. shipping fee -coast to coast-, with no (high) Customs & no (high) V.A.T.s…

Basil.

Accelerator,
That was kind of pessimistic!
Isn´t that what DIY is all about?
Chasing parts from all over the world to build exactly what YOU want.
Sometimes it would be cheaper to go to the local shop and just buy a good microphone
But for me and probably most DIYers It is the feeling of building something yourself, the progress and the learning that drives us.
But I´m with you about the US shipping costs.
For me, in this case, I have the capsules, can buy the psu chassis from europe at 10 euro shipping. Bom from mouser free shipping over 50 euro.
PCBs from Dany in US shipped together with some other PCBs I need later on.
Still figuring out what mic body to use. I would like it to look similar to the C-12. Suggestions are gratefully received.

Nick

 

[cariocaman85]

I had a similar problem back in the day at the very beginning of this thread, it was one of the polystyrene's had burned up, might want to take a look back in the thread to then, good luck

Hello,
I did change all polystyrene today.
Still the same issue unfortunately.
I can have b+ at 120v with a 180k strapped between b+ and ground, but when I plug the mic, voltage is rising past 120 and more...
I changed the tube, same problem.
Any idea what could it be?
Thanks a lot

 

[Accelerator]

@Nick6691​

Accelerator,
That was kind of pessimistic!
Isn´t that what DIY is all about?
Chasing parts from all over the world to build exactly what YOU want.
Sometimes it would be cheaper to go to the local shop and just buy a good microphone
But for me and probably most DIYers It is the feeling of building something yourself, the progress and the learning that drives us.
But I´m with you about the US shipping costs.
For me, in this case, I have the capsules, can buy the psu chassis from europe at 10 euro shipping. Bom from mouser free shipping over 50 euro.
PCBs from Dany in US shipped together with some other PCBs I need later on.
Still figuring out what mic body to use. I would like it to look similar to the C-12. Suggestions are gratefully received.

Nick

Back in those ol’ days of late ‘20’s that I started to making my Marshall JMP 100 clones I had like you this "Globalisation Spirit" to Chasing parts world-wide from all over the world to build exactly what I want.

The 6M100 Chassis Chassis and panels Kit from Weber VST USA, the G-10/FR4 P2P glass epoxy boards from Ace Pepper Custom Amplifiers – Thunder Tweak from USA, Hard-wood head cabinets from Dawson Hard-wood Cabs from Australia, the Canadian Hammond Transformers & D.C. Filters as the rest of electronic components from Farnell UK and so on all of this “Super Duper Globalisation Spirit” that I had back in those days ruin my pockets and made the Greek bankers, the Greek custom officers, the Greek post officers richer…

Today I’m more practical & economical so I’m looking for making my buying(s) mostly for everything item(s) within the E.U. range market, with free shipping and no customs, fast delivery to my door, so I have to pay only the price of the item(s) plus the (high 24%) Greek VAT…

For the C-12 microphone’s body take a look at the Alctron HT-11A Tube Microphone Body Kit that Chunger – Studio 939 also sell, but unfortunate it is also Sold Out…

Basil.

 

[HerbertR]

Thanks HerbertR
Didn`t know that one. Looks like the same size.
Is the transforner specs the same as TSP100?

Nick

As far as I know, there are versions with 180V/9.5V, 175V/9.5V and 200V/9.5V secondary winding. All versions should/will work perfectly. The Thomann SCT 2000 tube power supply for 50€ is the same with the 200V/9.5V transformer as in the Matador assembly instructions. You just need to lower the values of the drop resistors in the B+ circuit with the 180V or 175V Versions to lower the voltage until you are playing in the range where you can adjust the voltage with the trimmer to 110V... 120V or whatever is needed for the microphone. Totally easy.

By the way, I removed the print on the surface with a baked-on varnish like the one used on grills, moped exhausts, etc. A spray can like that costs 10 euros, a hour in the oven at 180 degrees to harden, and it's done...

 

[Accelerator]

@drtechno​

So what schematic you are using? Because all of them are wrong that I'm finding online for a 6072 tube.
For like a 120B+, self Bias should have a 220K plate resistor& 3.8K for cathode for around -4 grid voltage for class A.

-1 at the grid would be for more like a 12AX7 or a 12AU7 on self bias.

As you may know the very first 100 Batch of the AKG C-12 microphone systems (included the very famous “Ocean Way Studios” AKG C-12 microphone…) had the ECC81 – 12AT7 valve and 47KΩ Plate Resistor (RL) …

Now, according to the Ohm’s Low we take the 120 DC Volts as V+(V) and we divided them via the 47.000 Ohm which was the Plate Resistor aka the (RL) load:

120 / 47000 = 0.0025531914…. A, or more common & easily 2.55mA and we can now to draw the load line for the ECC81 – 12AT7 valve…

If we like to take the Vq(V) 60 Volts as Center Bias point to have the maximum headroom for our valve amplifier, we will see that the Iq(mA) is 1.28mA and the Grid Bias Voltage (V) is -1.02 Volts…

This was good for the domestic / European market which had the ECC81 – 12AT7 valve, but when the AKG distributors / sellers were hitting the doors of the Big American Studios (who has the biiiig moneyyy...) they were returning back with empty hands, because the American Studios demanding the AKG C-12 microphone system to have the very common (all) American 6072A – 12AY7 tube which was back in the time the most common American tube in use for guitar amps. / tube equipment(s) aka the 6072A – 12AY7 tube was back in time the “American King” something very similar with today’s ECC83 – 12AX7 tube…

So, AKG had to obey to the American big money & modified the AKG C-12 microphone system to work with the (all) American 6072A – 12AY7 tube…

In order to made it worked with the American 6072A – 12AY7 tube the AKG technicians changed the Plate Resistor (RL) from 47KΩ to 100KΩ…

Now, according to the Ohm’s Low we take the 120 DC Volts as V+(V) and we divided them via the 100000 Ohm which is the Plate Resistor aka the (RL) load:

120 / 100000 = 0.0012A, or more common & easily 1.20mA and we can now to draw the load line for the 6072A – 12AY7 tube…

If we like to take the Vq(V) 60 Volts as Center Bias point to have the maximum headroom for our valve amplifier, we will see that the Iq(mA) is 0.60mA and the Grid Bias Voltage (V) is -1.23 Volts…

Although the most proper and correct Grid Bias Voltage (V) for any AKG C-12 microphone system with 6072A – 12AY7 tube is -1.23 Volts, the -1 Volts has been “passed around” as the most common “Ol’ wife’s tale”, after all back in the analog time there weren’t any accurate DMM like all of these that everybody of us we have got today…

 

[pasarski]

...the very first 100 Batch of the AKG C-12 microphone systems (included the very famous “Ocean Way Studios” AKG C-12 microphone…) had the ECC81 – 12AT7 valve...

May I ask where this information comes from?

 

[Accelerator]

May I ask where this information comes from?

Yes, you can ask and you don’t have to pay me the 1.000.000 U.S.D. / Euros / GBP to have the answer….

What valve in what microphone ? - Saturn Sound

 

[pasarski]

Yes, you can ask and you don’t have to pay me the 1.000.000 U.S.D. / Euros / GBP to have the answer….

What valve in what microphone ? - Saturn Sound

But on the page, it says that the original tube is 12AY7, which is the same tube as the American 6072a. (Edit: incorrect info. Both are American, 6072a is a "Premium quality, long-life and low-microphonics version of 12AY7")

Saturn Sound is an amazing knowledge base, and I was sad to read that the man behind it, Ashley C. Styles, passed away last year. R.I.P.

 

[Accelerator]

But on the page, it says that the original tube is 12AY7, which is the same tube as the American 6072a.

Saturn Sound is an amazing knowledge base, and I was sad to read that the man behind it, Ashley C. Styles, passed away last year. R.I.P.

Yes, it's a very sad fact that all these old "good fellas" like Oliver Archut (RIP), Ashley C. Styles (RIP) and many others have passed away, but unfortunately "c'est la vie" and we should we make sure that the information(s) we got from them is passed on to the next generation after us...

Now as you may know the 12AY7 tube did not even exist before the year of 1956 by Tung Sol and before the year of 1963 by General Electric, so it impossible to ever be possible the Austrian AKG to load the very first 100 Batch of the AKG C-12 microphone systems at 1953 with the (all) American 12AY7 tube that did not even exist before 1956…

 

[Nick6691]

As far as I know, there are versions with 180V/9.5V, 175V/9.5V and 200V/9.5V secondary winding. All versions should/will work perfectly. The Thomann SCT 2000 tube power supply for 50€ is the same with the 200V/9.5V transformer as in the Matador assembly instructions. You just need to lower the values of the drop resistors in the B+ circuit with the 180V or 175V Versions to lower the voltage until you are playing in the range where you can adjust the voltage with the trimmer to 110V... 120V or whatever is needed for the microphone. Totally easy.

By the way, I removed the print on the surface with a baked-on varnish like the one used on grills, moped exhausts, etc. A spray can like that costs 10 euros, a hour in the oven at 180 degrees to harden, and it's done...

Thanks a lot for info
First Im going to use it for a C12 steropair but also thinking about the possibility
to use this psu for a D-EF47 with B+ 105V and H+ to 5.05V
Should that be possible?
Anyone tried it?
Nick

 

[Nick6691]

@Nick6691​

Back in those ol’ days of late ‘20’s that I started to making my Marshall JMP 100 clones I had like you this "Globalisation Spirit" to Chasing parts world-wide from all over the world to build exactly what I want.

The 6M100 Chassis Chassis and panels Kit from Weber VST USA, the G-10/FR4 P2P glass epoxy boards from Ace Pepper Custom Amplifiers – Thunder Tweak from USA, Hard-wood head cabinets from Dawson Hard-wood Cabs from Australia, the Canadian Hammond Transformers & D.C. Filters as the rest of electronic components from Farnell UK and so on all of this “Super Duper Globalisation Spirit” that I had back in those days ruin my pockets and made the Greek bankers, the Greek custom officers, the Greek post officers richer…

Today I’m more practical & economical so I’m looking for making my buying(s) mostly for everything item(s) within the E.U. range market, with free shipping and no customs, fast delivery to my door, so I have to pay only the price of the item(s) plus the (high 24%) Greek VAT…

For the C-12 microphone’s body take a look at the Alctron HT-11A Tube Microphone Body Kit that Chunger – Studio 939 also sell, but unfortunate it is also Sold Out…

Basil.

Hi Accelerator
Yes, shipping and taxes can be a big part of the total project.
Same here, try to do as local shopping as possible. but mouser has at least free shipping and take care of custom over 50 euro.
But tax is applied because it ships fro USA

And Yes the Alctron HT-11A Tube Microphone Body Kit at Studio 939 looks really nice but Its out of skock and has been for a while.
Anyboby know If its coming back?

Nick

 

[Nick6691]

Is there a mic body that fits Dany's D12 boards? I have been searching the forum and understand there are modifications to the board (not quite clear on what they are) to make them fit donor bodies.There are currently 151 pages to this thread so forgive if I missed the info. Any links are helpful, thank you

Hi
Have you found anything. I´m looking too

Nick

 

[pasarski]

Yes, it's a very sad fact that all these old "good fellas" like Oliver Archut (RIP), Ashley C. Styles (RIP) and many others have passed away, but unfortunately "c'est la vie" and we should we make sure that the information(s) we got from them is passed on to the next generation after us...

Now as you may know the 12AY7 tube did not even exist before the year of 1956 by Tung Sol and before the year of 1963 by General Electric, so it impossible to ever be possible the Austrian AKG to load the very first 100 Batch of the AKG C-12 microphone systems at 1953 with the (all) American 12AY7 tube that did not even exist before 1956…

It seems 12AY7 was at least registered at 1948.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_12ay7.html

I'm not trying to argue that the 12AT7 can't be used in a microphone—I've used it myself—but I'm just wondering where your information about its usage in the C12 comes from. I've never heard of that before.