Official C12 Clone - Build and Support Thread

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Thanks a lot for info
First Im going to use it for a C12 steropair but also thinking about the possibility
to use this psu for a D-EF47 with B+ 105V and H+ to 5.05V
Should that be possible?
Anyone tried it?
This will somehow work with heavy mods to the existing PCB. You will have to replace the LM7806 with a 7805, throw out the diode that elevates it and add more RC filtering for F+, as this will bias the cathode. Then adjust B+ with the series resistors (Zener diodes too) and it should work. I would probably choose a different design though...

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I just did something similar with a SCT800 power supply, since it has too little B+ filtering, I replaced the Zener diodes with another 33uF capacitor, which forms an additional RC filter with this resistor.
 
This will somehow work with heavy mods to the existing PCB. You will have to replace the LM7806 with a 7805, throw out the diode that elevates it and add more RC filtering for F+, as this will bias the cathode. Then adjust B+ with the series resistors (Zener diodes too) and it should work. I would probably choose a different design though...

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I just did something similar with a SCT800 power supply, since it has too little B+ filtering, I replaced the Zener diodes with another 33uF capacitor, which forms an additional RC filter with this resistor.
Thanks for input Rock,
After the C-12s (D-12) I´m about to build Danys D-EF47 and would really like to build the power supply that comes with that pcb kit.
But I´m not able to find a build guide for the psu, only for the microphone. (For the D-47 there is an excellent guide)
I dont have the skills to do it without a guide. Do you know if there is one? Have searched tho forum for days.
Maybe this discussion ended up in the wrong thread. :)

Nick
 
It seems 12AY7 was at least registered at 1948.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_12ay7.html
It “seems” means nothing without any Official Tube Datasheets from the Big 4 Tube American Companies (General Electric, RCA, Tung-Sol, Western Electric Co. – Westinghouse)

I will not disagree with you that back in time maybe some very minor smaller tube company like the American Arcturus Radio Tube Company or the Australian AWV or the American Chatham Electronics Corporation or the American Rogers Majestic Electronics Ltd. may had registered the 12AY7 tube back at 1948 and sells them at small quantities, but when we are talking about American tubes mainly the most of us we are talking about the mass production of American tubes by the Big 4 Tube American Companies (General Electric, RCA, Tung-Sol, Western Electric Co. – Westinghouse)
I'm not trying to argue that the 12AT7 can't be used in a microphone—I've used it myself—but I'm just wondering where your information about its usage in the C12 comes from. I've never heard of that before.
The AKG C-12 Microphone system was the most expensive microphone system back in time at 1954, with a price range at $1.450 U.S.D. something very equal to $8.000 U.S.D. in today’s price range analogy and back in time they weren’t bedroom studios with DAWs, individual customers, so it is very logical for all of those Big American Studios to demanded from the Austrian “Boutique Newcomer” to have these AKG C-12 Microphone System(s) with the (all) American and common 6072A – 12AY7 tube…

As you can see by the attached file, there wasn’t any AKG C-12 Microphone System Schematic with the (all) American 6072A – 12AY7 tube before 1959 and from the other hand we have got today all of this “Ol’ wife’s tale” of biasing at -1Volts and the 2K7 Cathode Resistors in the AKG C-24 microphone system as clear indicators of using the ECC81 – 12AT7 tube…
 

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It “seems” means nothing without any Official Tube Datasheets from the Big 4 Tube American Companies (General Electric, RCA, Tung-Sol, Western Electric Co. – Westinghouse)

I will not disagree with you that back in time maybe some very minor smaller tube company like the American Arcturus Radio Tube Company or the Australian AWV or the American Chatham Electronics Corporation or the American Rogers Majestic Electronics Ltd. may had registered the 12AY7 tube back at 1948 and sells them at small quantities, but when we are talking about American tubes mainly the most of us we are talking about the mass production of American tubes by the Big 4 Tube American Companies (General Electric, RCA, Tung-Sol, Western Electric Co. – Westinghouse)

The AKG C-12 Microphone system was the most expensive microphone system back in time at 1954, with a price range at $1.450 U.S.D. something very equal to $8.000 U.S.D. in today’s price range analogy and back in time they weren’t bedroom studios with DAWs, individual customers, so it is very logical for all of those Big American Studios to demanded from the Austrian “Boutique Newcomer” to have these AKG C-12 Microphone System(s) with the (all) American and common 6072A – 12AY7 tube…

As you can see by the attached file, there wasn’t any AKG C-12 Microphone System Schematic with the (all) American 6072A – 12AY7 tube before 1959 and from the other hand we have got today all of this “Ol’ wife’s tale” of biasing at -1Volts and the 2K7 Cathode Resistors in the AKG C-24 microphone system as clear indicators of using the ECC81 – 12AT7 tube…
Here's a RCA datasheet from 1954
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...IQFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0hYOdAp7h2DXfeUNlvVx8q
 
Accelerator I have data sheets dating 1955 from GE and I am sure there are older. The first 100 C12s were actually branded Seimens SM204 and every one I have seen had a GE 6072 in it(though they could easily have been changed). I have never seen an old one with an original Tung Sol. Have you seen any C12 schematics beyond the C1 specifying another tube?
RCA developed the 12ax7 in 1946.
 
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Here is a GE from 1954 but I have seen a Tung Sol sheet from 1951: The date is at the bottom of page 2.
The SM204 was built in 1954.
 

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@Tim Campbell

Accelerator I have data sheets dating 1955 from GE and I am sure there are older. The first 100 C12s were actually branded Seimens SM204 and every one I have seen had a GE 6072 in it(though they could easily have been changed). I have never seen an old one with an original Tung Sol. Have you seen any C12 schematics beyond the C1 specifying another tube?
RCA developed the 12ax7 in 1946.
Tim with all of my during respect that I have to you, I have to inform you that the AKG - Siemens 204 tube microphone was a total different microphone that the AKG C-12 Microphone System, as the AKG - Siemens 204 tube microphone was Cathode Biased by 1k8 Cathode resistor while the AKG C-12 Microphone System has Fixed-adjustable bias, and the most important is that the AKG - Siemens 204 tube microphone was produced back at the 1960, not at the 1953 like the AKG C-12 Microphone System…
 

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Accelerator I don't want to disagree with you but I just got off the phone with 2 of the old engineers at AKG who checked their records and verified to me that the original SM204 was produced in 1951 and changed slightly over a couple of years until the final version SM204/23 was produced in 1953. I only have this by phone but I can try to get them to send me copies. I have no idea why your schematic is stamp dated 1960. I have worked on 4 SM204s and they all had shallow resonator CK12 capsules which were manufactured in the middle 1950s. I understand the biasing differences but the greatest difference is the transformer. Supposedly there were some manufactured with a Henry transformer but those I have seen had Rode and Schwarz.

I am not sure I would call these completely different microphones but there are differences.

Actually the photo you posted of the pair of SM204/23 internals is a photo that I took :)
 

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@Tim Campbell

Accelerator I don't want to disagree with you but I just got off the phone with 2 of the old engineers at AKG who checked their records and verified to me that the original SM204 was produced in 1951 and changed slightly over a couple of years until the final version SM204/23 was produced in 1953. I only have this by phone but I can try to get them to send me copies. I have no idea why your schematic is stamp dated 1960. I have worked on 4 SM204s and they all had shallow resonator CK12 capsules which were manufactured in the middle 1950s. I understand the biasing differences but the greatest difference is the transformer. Supposedly there were some manufactured with a Henry transformer but those I have seen had Rode and Schwarz.

I am not sure I would call these completely different microphones but there are differences.

Actually the photo you posted of the pair of SM204/23 internals is a photo that I took :)
Tim, I totally agree with you that the transition from the AKG flat-shallow dish resonator CK12 capsules which were manufactured in the middle 1950s to the AKG deep dish resonator CK12 capsules at the early 1960’s and the transition from the Henry V-3044 transformer to the Henry V-2148 Transformer (AKG C-12 Microphone System at middle 1950s) and then to the Rohde & Schwarz V-2545 (AKG C-12 Microphone System at late 1950s, AKG - Siemens SM203/4 - C23 Tube Microphone at late 1950s/ early 1960’s) to the Haufe T14-1 (AKG C-12 Microphone System at early 1960s, AKG C-24 Microphone System at early 1960s, AKG-Telefunken ELA-M 250/251 (non E with the AC701K tube) and AKG-Telefunken ELA-M 251E (with the 6072A tube) were the “huuugeeee steps” in the transformation to what we all know today as “AKG C-12 sound-like”...

AKG was the small Austrian “newcomer boutique” company back in time at middle 1950s with non the “big history and the clear records” neither the “Big Status” that both Neumann & Schoeps had, so they had to did everything just to “make their fit” in the antagonistic microphones market, and logically there were several “back and forth” decisions about their microphones

So, as we can see today that they used the AKG flat-shallow dish resonator CK12 capsules which were manufactured in the middle 1950s anachronistically in the AKG C-414 EB microphone at 1976, they keep as "urban legeng" the uncorrected “Ol’ wife’s tale” value of biasing the 6072A tube at Grid Bias Voltage (V) -1 Volts for the AKG C-12 Microphone System and the uncorrected value of 2k7 Cathode Resistors at C-24 Microphone System with the 6072A tube which are clear indicators of a previous one designing and implementation of C-12 / C-24 microphone system(s) running at 120 DC Volts Vb with the ECC81 – 12AT7 valve, as the correct values for the 6072A – 12AY7 tube running at 120 DC Volts Vb is Grid Bias Voltage -1.23 Volts for the AKG C-12 microphone system and the correct values are 2K05 Cathode Resistors for the C-24 microphone system(s)

The only “Unofficial” report that I have for the usage of 6072A - 12AY7 tube in the AKG C-12 Microphone System comes from the American magazine “Electronic Design News” and it was dated at April 1957

Before this from 1953 to 1957 there was nothing in the Official and Unofficial record about the tubes for the AKG C-12 Microphone System…

Returning to the topic as Matador has involve both of these options of the usage of ECC81 – 12AT7 valve with 47KΩ Anode Resistor at 120 DC Volts Vb I can say that the correct Grid Bias Voltage (V) is -1.01 Volts and if someone would like to use the 6072A - 12AY7 tube with 100KΩ Anode Resistor at 120 DC Volts Vb the correct Grid Bias Voltage (V) is -1.23 Volts
 

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@Tim Campbell

Wow, just Wow Tim!..

What a very nice thread about the AKG C12 / Siemens SM204 was that?...

It seems that back in time all of you old “good fellas” you lived it up here in the microphone section with all of those legendary and expensive tube microphones, unlike the today’s cheapie, cheapie FET days…

I know that we may “Hi-jacked” a little bit the Matador ‘s Official C12 Clone - Build and Support Thread about the AKG – Siemens SM-204 microphone and I have forward to say sorry to him about that, but there is a very interesting info (or speculation…) about the AKG – Siemens SM-204 microphone, that unlike the AKG C-12 Microphone System which used 250MΩ Resistors (at R14 - R15) the AKG – Siemens SM-204 microphone it had 100MΩ Resistors (at R14 - R15) something quite “close” to the 60MΩ Grid-leak Resistor that the Neumann used for the Neumann U-47 microphone and for this reason (plus the AKG flat-shallow dish resonator CK12 capsules which were manufactured in the middle 1950s & the Rohde & Schwarz V-2545 transformer) the AKG – Siemens SM-204 microphone sounds like a “transition between” the AKG C-12 Microphone System & the Neumann U-47 microphone

Oliver Archut (RIP) points it with the 100MΩ Resistors (at R1 - R5) to his Oliver Archut C12 Alternative Schematic Updated-Alina schematic…
 

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