PC v Mac environments

[gltech]

> Ever see somebody grab the mouse and click in the User Id field, go back to the keyboard and type their User Id, go back to the mouse, click in the Password field, go back to the keyboard and type their password, then go back to the mouse and click the "Log In" button?

Yes. Drives me mad. Showing them does no good.

Must be a lot of them, because I'm seeing more dialog boxes where TAB or Alt- doesn't get you to the box; ONLY a mouse will get there.

Exactly what I was talking about...

Visual Studio 2012 and 2013 are missing KB functionality present in the earlier versions, and also have new bugs that you can tell didn't get caught because they weren't KB tested. And Visual Studio 2014's out now. They change everything so much they keep everybody at the learning/novice level.

My bad, 2015's out now. Let's learn everything all over again every year!

Excuse me MattiasNYC, please keep things civil. I'm not a "subpar operator" - in fact I am a computer TRAINER. And a damn good one at that, over 20 years. I've taught Windows many times my friend.

I know the shortcuts you speak of, and they don't compensate for the other shortcomings aforementioned -- for ME.

I appreciate that you love win8 and have such a fantastic work flow with it. But respectfully, please consider others have different experiences. One of the great things about this forum is we can all have different opinions and experiences, but you're crossing the line quite frankly. We can agree to disagree, but calling names - LAME!

Mike

MattiasNYC, I say this with all due respect. Opening Nuendo with Win-Key/n, or Win-key/type/enter is super-simple compared to what advanced users in an IT shop and even a recording studio are used to doing. I'm used to typing something like Ctrl-Esc/F/P/Shift-DownArrow/Ctrl-C/Alt-Tab/Ctrl-V in about 1 second to do something that would take me at least 5 with the mouse. Those like me simply don't understand why they take our efficiency away and force us to go the slow route. I encourage you to look into keyboard shorcuts for Windows, Mac and Nuendo and anything else. It can increase your productivity immensely in a short time. And let's all hope the more-pecking trend reverses.

 

[Rob Flinn]

Can someone who knows windows 8 tell me how to stop it switching to the tiled view from the 95 style desktop when I move my finger around on the mouse pad.    It's pretty irritating to me ....

 

[mattiasNYC]

MattiasNYC, I say this with all due respect. Opening Nuendo with Win-Key/n, or Win-key/type/enter is super-simple compared to what advanced users in an IT shop and even a recording studio are used to doing.

Sure, but the argument was that "most people" had these problems, and "most people" aren't advanced users in an IT shop. And my living is working in audio post, so I don't agree much with the other issues either in that profession. I easily get into my app, I easily move between them...... I just don't see these problems.

I'm used to typing something like Ctrl-Esc/F/P/Shift-DownArrow/Ctrl-C/Alt-Tab/Ctrl-V in about 1 second to do something that would take me at least 5 with the mouse. Those like me simply don't understand why they take our efficiency away and force us to go the slow route. I encourage you to look into keyboard shorcuts for Windows, Mac and Nuendo and anything else. It can increase your productivity immensely in a short time. And let's all hope the more-pecking trend reverses.

So you're saying that you can no longer execute those key commands?

Personally I use a Preh programmable keyboard, a programmed trackball and a programmed jog/shuttle, all with customized key commands and macros in Nuendo. When I work in studios it's typically just PT's built-in key commands. But either way, yes, I'm all into KCs.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Excuse me MattiasNYC, please keep things civil. I'm not a "subpar operator" - in fact I am a computer TRAINER. And a damn good one at that, over 20 years. I've taught Windows many times my friend.

Well you wrote about how most people had this sentiment, and I think that if most people have this tough a problem opening an app compared to Win 7, when it's  matter of hitting win+keys+enter, then something is clearly wrong. I didn't say you specifically are sub-par, but let's face it: A great deal of computer users are stuck in one way of working and can't wrap their head around even a super-simple adjustment that would even gain them speed most likely (i.e. rather than some other way of opening the app they could just do key-strokes).

But if you take it personally I apologize.

I appreciate that you love win8 and have such a fantastic work flow with it.

I don't love it. I just don't hate it and I don't think it was nearly as bad as a lot of normal users made it out to be.

But respectfully, please consider others have different experiences. One of the great things about this forum is we can all have different opinions and experiences, but you're crossing the line quite frankly. We can agree to disagree, but calling names - LAME!

Mike

Relax.

 

[Pip]

I myself have been using Microsoft and Apple based OS machines for sometime with equal fervor.  I have only had problems with downward compatibility issues and software catching up with both platforms. Apple is much more unforgiving with long-term upgrade lag and downward compatibility and Microsoft can really mess up your day  with an update.

That being said I recently upgraded to windows 10 from 8.1 and the only problem I have had is again there is a lag with the software I use keeping up in the case of my audio DAW its timing problems. I must say I have been using exclusively 64bit versions since Windows 7 Pro was released which does tend to be part of the reason for development lag.

I do have to chime in on the operator error riff. Yes all of these latest offerings are making interstellar leaps and especially when it comes to Sandboxing and Touch function, the latter now calls to the fore monitor failings. So Luddites beware.  The term program is now obsolete they are all Apps and best get used to it.   

 

[Rob Flinn]

I did a Windows 8.1 to upgrade.  10 seems to work well. but it has lost the mouse driver at least 3 times since the "upgrade".  This is a real pita to sort out using the keyboard alone.  But... not impossible.  Not sure why it's done it 3 times though.

I do find it irritating when I talk with mac users who boldly state that macs never fall over.    I was contracting at a post production place in London where the use both macs & pc's.  One of my colleagues, who hates macs, had a cold call from a man who was offering "mac only" support for all the macs on site.  After telling him that he really had been put through to the wrong bloke, my colleague said "well you can't have much of a business, because according to mac users they never go wrong, so therefore why would you need support". 

I admit that in some instances macs seem to be less clunky, but at the same place one of my workmates had to set up 3 macbook airs on the brand new meraki network so they could use them with the network printers etc.  Let's just say he was looking rather bald by the time he finished.   

 

[Phrazemaster]

Excuse me MattiasNYC, please keep things civil. I'm not a "subpar operator" - in fact I am a computer TRAINER. And a damn good one at that, over 20 years. I've taught Windows many times my friend.

Well you wrote about how most people had this sentiment, and I think that if most people have this tough a problem opening an app compared to Win 7, when it's  matter of hitting win+keys+enter, then something is clearly wrong. I didn't say you specifically are sub-par, but let's face it: A great deal of computer users are stuck in one way of working and can't wrap their head around even a super-simple adjustment that would even gain them speed most likely (i.e. rather than some other way of opening the app they could just do key-strokes).

But if you take it personally I apologize.

I appreciate that you love win8 and have such a fantastic work flow with it.

I don't love it. I just don't hate it and I don't think it was nearly as bad as a lot of normal users made it out to be.

But respectfully, please consider others have different experiences. One of the great things about this forum is we can all have different opinions and experiences, but you're crossing the line quite frankly. We can agree to disagree, but calling names - LAME!

Mike

Relax.

Yeah, sounds good. But I don't think you're taking into account that most people are not using the program like you are, so to say people are "subpar operators" who have trouble with it crosses the line a little. But I hear you're not meaning it unkindly.

Seriously I think it's great you are able to be so productive.

I had a buddy years ago on Win95. He knew so many keyboard shortcuts that he would do 10 commands on the keyboard, and then literally wait for the machine to catch up with him. He would sit back while windows opened/closed, and the screen flashed. When it caught up, he would do it again!

To be fair I was also not using Win8 for audio as you are. But it has this kind of weird hybrid interface that kind of does both new and old poorly at the same time. I bet Win10 does it right. I installed it recently, but haven't gotten into it.

Anyway, peace bro, and thanks.

Mike

 

[Andy Peters]

I admit that in some instances macs seem to be less clunky, but at the same place one of my workmates had to set up 3 macbook airs on the brand new meraki network so they could use them with the network printers etc.  Let's just say he was looking rather bald by the time he finished. 

That's a Meraki fail, not a Mac fail.

 

[Rob Flinn]

I admit that in some instances macs seem to be less clunky, but at the same place one of my workmates had to set up 3 macbook airs on the brand new meraki network so they could use them with the network printers etc.  Let's just say he was looking rather bald by the time he finished. 

That's a Meraki fail, not a Mac fail.

I am not networking expert but there were no isssues setting the mac pro's up on the meraki system  ..................

 

[kambo]

osx sucks ....
i ended up returning couple of their laptops due their demanding update/upgrade... not looking back...

 

[etheory]

At work I use Linux, at home Windows 8.1 and for freelance work a combination of OSX and iOS.

I absolutely and utterly can't stand OSX or iOS. IMO they are probably the worst user experience I've ever had on a computer. Keyboard shortcuts that defy the physics of stretching fingers, constant unrelenting and often failing updates, every new version appears to run slower on old hardware than the last, and being a programmer I could write a book on code-level issues with both OSX and iOS (there are MANY).

My work Linux environment (OpenOffice, Maya, Houdini, and other 3D/2D/word processing apps) is managed for me by a large team, so, unless something goes wrong mysteriously, it's great.

My home Windows 8.1 machine is a dream. I know it inside out, it's great for software development, writing music (Ableton Live 9.5) and word processing - OpenOffice, or Google Docs or many other free options. The MOffice Suite is horrid on any platform so I never touch it (and OpenOffice can export MOffice compatible files just fine). Windows 8.1 I actually really like. It's stable, and on a 6 year old machine it's fast, stable and extremely reliable (unlike my top-specced-3-years ago Mac that's barely useable it feels so incredibly slow).

So basically, I'd never use a Mac for professional work that wasn't based on iOS app work (that I do freelance).

The PC gives me the best of all worlds, and the work Linux environment is really stable but I definitely wouldn't want to manage it at home (well, not the CentOS environment anyway, other distros seems far easier to self-manage).

I don't understand why people like OSX at all. I've had to work on it for a few years now out of necessity and learn it, but it honestly seems largely nonsensical to me.

 

[Phrazemaster]

It's amazing. This thread has taught me there's a purpose to every OS, and one man's trash is another's treasure.

I can't stand Win8.1. In my way of working its kludgy and slows me down. XP, Win7, I love.

But OS X sucking? Nah guys, not for me. I run OS X in a Mac laptop and also use Win7 in a VM; no issues with either and they both run reasonably fast. I do have an SSD so that helps.

In another note, any computer, including Windows based ones, run slower and slower every year--count on it. Macs too.

Ever wonder why?

Who stands to gain if someone gets pissed and throws out their old computer and buys a new one? Would you know if wait cycles were added surreptitiously into the OS as time goes on, thereby slowing it?

Think that's nuts? Well I can't prove that other than by deduction, however I did have a client tell me he used to work for a software company, and in early versions of a product they did add wait loops. On successive releases of the software they reduced the wait loops do they could sell it as "faster." True story.

Why wouldn't the opposite also be true?

Fun talk gents.

 

[gltech]

I don't know how my quotes got attributed to Phrazemaster, but here goes:

MattiasNYC, I say this with all due respect. Opening Nuendo with Win-Key/n, or Win-key/type/enter is super-simple compared to what advanced users in an IT shop and even a recording studio are used to doing.

Sure, but the argument was that "most people" had these problems, and "most people" aren't advanced users in an IT shop. And my living is working in audio post, so I don't agree much with the other issues either in that profession. I easily get into my app, I easily move between them...... I just don't see these problems.

They don't have to ruin everything for advanced users when they change things for "most people."

I'm used to typing something like Ctrl-Esc/F/P/Shift-DownArrow/Ctrl-C/Alt-Tab/Ctrl-V in about 1 second to do something that would take me at least 5 with the mouse. Those like me simply don't understand why they take our efficiency away and force us to go the slow route. I encourage you to look into keyboard shorcuts for Windows, Mac and Nuendo and anything else. It can increase your productivity immensely in a short time. And let's all hope the more-pecking trend reverses.

So you're saying that you can no longer execute those key commands?

Personally I use a Preh programmable keyboard, a programmed trackball and a programmed jog/shuttle, all with customized key commands and macros in Nuendo. When I work in studios it's typically just PT's built-in key commands. But either way, yes, I'm all into KCs.

Correct, almost every version they come out with changes all the keyboard shortcuts, or eliminates some entirely. It kills the advanced user. And they used to come out with a new version every few years or so to actually fix problems, now they get one version out, and the press is already talking about the next version, mainly for a new "look and feel." The 8-year-old "cool" factor mentality. At this rate, I'm eventually expecting 2 or 3 OS versions every year. It's nonsense, and it's one of those things where a corp is controlling us (hello libs) instead of us controlling them with our free choice. Can anybody tell me anything significant since XP that's improved upon?

 

[gltech]

I had a buddy years ago on Win95. He knew so many keyboard shortcuts that he would do 10 commands on the keyboard, and then literally wait for the machine to catch up with him. He would sit back while windows opened/closed, and the screen flashed. When it caught up, he would do it again!

Life as usual for me. It's incrementally improved over the years with faster machines and as Windows went 95-98-2000-XP. No improvement there with the OS since, just visual changes.

 

[ln76d]

I vote for Amiga 500

 

[gyraf]

Atari ST was more stable than the Amiga. And with the external midi box for Notator/Creator (Logic) it had tighter timing than anything today.

As we say here; only the lost is loved forever...  ;D

Jakob E.

 

[helterbelter]

PS: I've near-perfected a way to keep computers clean and fast, based on 20+ years experience with a sizable number of machines in my software shop and studio. I've been thinking about writing a post about it, and will if there's interest.

Please, do so !

I've made up a protocol of my own for Windows, but it's always good to know how others are doing this. Also, what sometimes might appear as a good idea, might turn out not so great, so....

Exchanging ideas and experiences is the key, I guess.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I'm used to typing something like Ctrl-Esc/F/P/Shift-DownArrow/Ctrl-C/Alt-Tab/Ctrl-V in about 1 second to do something that would take me at least 5 with the mouse. 

Wow! I'm impressed. I'm very slow at typing and even slower at learning shortcuts. Your described sequence would take me about a minute to type and even longer to understand. 

Those like me simply don't understand why they take our efficiency away and force us to go the slow route. I encourage you to look into keyboard shorcuts for Windows, Mac and Nuendo and anything else. It can increase your productivity immensely in a short time.

Booting the machine takes about 2 minutes, Avast service takes... what it takes, dialogue with the dongle (Samplitude) takes another 30 seconds, so WTH?
About the only shortcut I use is one I created, using the "²" key to create digital silence. For the rest, using the mouse allows me to turn on the brains before acting  .

Mac and Linux are out of the question for me since my favourite apps are W-only. Currently W7 after XP, 2000... (escaping Vista) and a short stunt with Mac (made me feel like a girl Friday - don't think, just pump the keys). I recently installed Ubuntu, but I haven't yet found any good reason to favour it over W for mail, internet, office...

 

[living sounds]

Atari ST was more stable than the Amiga. And with the external midi box for Notator/Creator (Logic) it had tighter timing than anything today.

As we say here; only the lost is loved forever...  ;D

Jakob E.

Fortunately there is the DIY project Midibox gm5x5x5. I've built a few of those. Only way to get tight timing today via USB.

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=gm5x5x5_noob_guide

 

[Andy Peters]

osx sucks ....
i ended up returning couple of their laptops due their demanding update/upgrade... not looking back...

Certainly the Software Update feature tells you that new updates are available, but absolutely nothing prevents you from ignoring those update requests and carrying on ...

I mean, I see more update notifications from Windows 7 in a week than I see from OS X in a year.